From a392f4e18edf04e60faf377968d6f5bc020bc229 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Daria <daria.staferova@n8n.io>
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2026 12:57:29 +0000
Subject: [PATCH] feat(editor): Improve empty-group style & behavior
 (no-changelog) (#38705)

---
 .../frontend/@n8n/i18n/src/locales/en.json    |   1 +
 .../composables/useCanvasOperations.test.ts   |  81 ++++-
 .../app/composables/useCanvasOperations.ts    |  78 +++--
 .../src/app/constants/nodeCreator.ts          |   9 +
 .../editor-ui/src/app/views/NodeView.test.ts  | 330 +++++++++++++++++-
 .../editor-ui/src/app/views/NodeView.vue      |  61 +++-
 .../logs/components/LogsOverviewPanel.test.ts |  36 ++
 .../logs/components/LogsOverviewRow.vue       |  32 +-
 .../logs/components/LogsPanel.test.ts         |  21 ++
 .../execution/logs/components/LogsPanel.vue   |  16 +
 .../execution/logs/logs.utils.test.ts         |  28 +-
 .../src/features/execution/logs/logs.utils.ts |  12 +-
 .../composables/useContextMenu.test.ts        |  29 ++
 .../contextMenu/composables/useContextMenu.ts |  20 +-
 .../composables/useContextMenuItems.ts        |  46 ++-
 .../components/Panel/NodesListPanel.test.ts   |  58 ++-
 .../components/Panel/NodesListPanel.vue       |  25 +-
 .../composables/useActions.test.ts            |  19 +
 .../nodeCreator/composables/useActions.ts     |  14 +-
 .../nodeCreator/views/NodeCreation.test.ts    |  11 +-
 .../shared/nodeCreator/views/NodeCreation.vue |  19 +-
 .../canvas/components/Canvas.test.ts          | 107 +++++-
 .../workflows/canvas/components/Canvas.vue    | 105 ++++--
 .../groups/CanvasNodeGroupTitleBar.test.ts    |  49 +++
 .../groups/CanvasNodeGroupTitleBar.vue        |  19 +-
 .../useCanvasNodeGroupActions.test.ts         |  21 ++
 .../composables/useCanvasNodeGroupActions.ts  |  13 +-
 .../useCanvasNodeGroupSelection.ts            |  23 +-
 28 files changed, 1139 insertions(+), 144 deletions(-)

diff --git a/packages/frontend/@n8n/i18n/src/locales/en.json b/packages/frontend/@n8n/i18n/src/locales/en.json
index afa5edf45a5..2c28e2deaeb 100644
--- a/packages/frontend/@n8n/i18n/src/locales/en.json
+++ b/packages/frontend/@n8n/i18n/src/locales/en.json
@@ -1897,6 +1897,7 @@
 	"logs.overview.header.switch.details": "Details",
 	"logs.overview.header.switch.overview": "Overview",
 	"logs.overview.body.empty.message": "Nothing to display yet. Execute the workflow to see execution logs.",
+	"logs.overview.body.emptyGroup": "empty",
 	"logs.overview.body.dataTooLarge.message": "This execution's data is too large to display.",
 	"logs.overview.body.empty.action": "Execute the workflow",
 	"logs.overview.body.summaryText.for": "{status} for {time}",
diff --git a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/app/composables/useCanvasOperations.test.ts b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/app/composables/useCanvasOperations.test.ts
index 0c47ab0066c..13e90013e12 100644
--- a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/app/composables/useCanvasOperations.test.ts
+++ b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/app/composables/useCanvasOperations.test.ts
@@ -1775,6 +1775,81 @@ describe('useCanvasOperations', () => {
 		});
 	});
 
+	describe('addNodesAndConnections', () => {
+		it('keeps the replacement node aligned when an earlier batch item fails', async () => {
+			const nodeTypesStore = useNodeTypesStore();
+			const failedType = 'n8n-nodes-base.limited';
+			const replacementType = 'n8n-nodes-base.replacement';
+			const anchor = createTestNode({
+				id: 'anchor',
+				name: 'Empty Group Anchor',
+				type: NO_OP_NODE_TYPE,
+				parameters: { emptyGroupAnchor: true },
+			});
+			const group = { id: 'group', name: 'Group 1', nodeIds: [anchor.id] };
+			const nodesById = new Map([[anchor.id, anchor]]);
+
+			nodeTypesStore.nodeTypes = {
+				[failedType]: {
+					1: mockNodeTypeDescription({ name: failedType, maxNodes: 0 }),
+				},
+				[replacementType]: {
+					1: mockNodeTypeDescription({ name: replacementType }),
+				},
+			};
+			workflowDocumentStoreInstance.allNodes = [anchor];
+			workflowDocumentStoreInstance.connectionsBySourceNode = {};
+			vi.mocked(workflowDocumentStoreInstance.incomingConnectionsByNodeName).mockReturnValue({});
+			vi.mocked(workflowDocumentStoreInstance.outgoingConnectionsByNodeName).mockReturnValue({});
+			vi.spyOn(workflowDocumentStoreInstance, 'getNodeById').mockImplementation((id) =>
+				nodesById.get(id),
+			);
+			vi.spyOn(workflowDocumentStoreInstance, 'getNodeByName').mockImplementation(
+				(name) => [...nodesById.values()].find((node) => node.name === name) ?? null,
+			);
+			vi.spyOn(workflowDocumentStoreInstance, 'getGroupForNode').mockImplementation((id) =>
+				group.nodeIds.includes(id) ? group : undefined,
+			);
+			vi.spyOn(workflowDocumentStoreInstance, 'getGroupById').mockReturnValue(group);
+			vi.spyOn(workflowDocumentStoreInstance, 'getParentNodes').mockReturnValue([]);
+			vi.spyOn(workflowDocumentStoreInstance, 'getChildNodes').mockReturnValue([]);
+			vi.spyOn(workflowDocumentStoreInstance, 'getConnectionsBetweenNodes').mockReturnValue([]);
+			vi.spyOn(workflowDocumentStoreInstance, 'addNode').mockImplementation((addedNode) => {
+				nodesById.set(addedNode.id, addedNode);
+				workflowDocumentStoreInstance.allNodes = [...nodesById.values()];
+			});
+			vi.spyOn(workflowDocumentStoreInstance, 'replaceNodeInGroup').mockImplementation(
+				(_groupId, previousNodeId, newNodeId) => {
+					group.nodeIds = group.nodeIds.map((id) => (id === previousNodeId ? newNodeId : id));
+				},
+			);
+			vi.spyOn(workflowDocumentStoreInstance, 'removeNodeById').mockImplementation((id) => {
+				nodesById.delete(id);
+				workflowDocumentStoreInstance.allNodes = [...nodesById.values()];
+			});
+			vi.spyOn(nodeGroupOperationGuards, 'useCanvasNodeGroupOperationGuards').mockReturnValue({
+				isConnectionRemovalAllowedForNodeGroups: vi.fn().mockReturnValue(true),
+				isConnectionReplacementAllowedForNodeGroups: vi
+					.fn()
+					.mockReturnValue({ outcome: 'proceed' }),
+				isNodeReplacementAllowedForNodeGroups: vi.fn().mockReturnValue(true),
+				applyNodeGroupAutoExtend: vi.fn(),
+			});
+
+			const { addNodesAndConnections } = useCanvasOperations();
+			const { addedNodes } = await addNodesAndConnections(
+				[{ type: failedType, isAutoAdd: true }, { type: replacementType }],
+				[],
+				{ replaceNodeId: anchor.id, trackHistory: false, trackBulk: false },
+			);
+
+			const replacementNode = addedNodes.find((node) => node.type === replacementType);
+			expect(replacementNode).toBeDefined();
+			expect(group.nodeIds).toEqual([replacementNode?.id]);
+			expect(nodesById.has(anchor.id)).toBe(false);
+		});
+	});
+
 	describe('revertAddNode', () => {
 		it('deletes node if it exists', async () => {
 			const node = createTestNode();
@@ -1928,8 +2003,8 @@ describe('useCanvasOperations', () => {
 				nodesById.delete(id);
 			});
 
-			const { deleteNode } = useCanvasOperations();
-			deleteNode(node.id, { trackHistory: true });
+			const { deleteNodes } = useCanvasOperations();
+			deleteNodes([node.id], { trackHistory: true, deleteWholeGroupIds: ['other-group'] });
 
 			expect(workflowDocumentStoreInstance.addNode).toHaveBeenCalled();
 			expect(workflowDocumentStoreInstance.replaceNodeInGroup).toHaveBeenCalled();
@@ -1967,7 +2042,7 @@ describe('useCanvasOperations', () => {
 			});
 
 			const { deleteNodes } = useCanvasOperations();
-			deleteNodes([node.id], { trackHistory: true, preserveEmptyGroupAnchor: false });
+			deleteNodes([node.id], { trackHistory: true, deleteWholeGroupIds: [group.id] });
 
 			expect(workflowDocumentStoreInstance.addNode).not.toHaveBeenCalled();
 			expect(workflowDocumentStoreInstance.removeNodeById).toHaveBeenCalledWith(node.id);
diff --git a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/app/composables/useCanvasOperations.ts b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/app/composables/useCanvasOperations.ts
index 283b7c4c19a..163cec9f7ec 100644
--- a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/app/composables/useCanvasOperations.ts
+++ b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/app/composables/useCanvasOperations.ts
@@ -200,6 +200,8 @@ type AddNodesBaseOptions = {
 type AddNodesOptions = AddNodesBaseOptions & {
 	position?: XYPosition;
 	trackBulk?: boolean;
+	/** Maps each input index to the node that was actually added, if it succeeded. */
+	addedNodesByInputIndex?: Map<number, INodeUi>;
 };
 
 type AddNodeOptions = AddNodesBaseOptions & {
@@ -754,19 +756,26 @@ export function useCanvasOperations() {
 
 	function deleteNodes(
 		ids: string[],
-		{ trackHistory = true, trackBulk = true, preserveEmptyGroupAnchor = true } = {},
+		{
+			trackHistory = true,
+			trackBulk = true,
+			deleteWholeGroupIds = [],
+		}: { trackHistory?: boolean; trackBulk?: boolean; deleteWholeGroupIds?: string[] } = {},
 	) {
+		const deleteWholeGroupIdSet = new Set(deleteWholeGroupIds);
+
 		if (trackHistory && trackBulk) {
 			historyStore.startRecordingUndo();
 		}
 
-		ids.forEach((id) =>
+		ids.forEach((id) => {
+			const group = workflowDocumentStore.value.getGroupForNode(id);
 			deleteNode(id, {
 				trackHistory,
 				trackBulk: false,
-				preserveEmptyGroupAnchor,
-			}),
-		);
+				preserveEmptyGroupAnchor: !group || !deleteWholeGroupIdSet.has(group.id),
+			});
+		});
 
 		if (trackHistory && trackBulk) {
 			historyStore.stopRecordingUndo();
@@ -1176,6 +1185,7 @@ export function useCanvasOperations() {
 					newNode.placeholder = true;
 				}
 				addedNodes.push(newNode);
+				options.addedNodesByInputIndex?.set(index, newNode);
 			} catch (error) {
 				toast.showError(error, i18n.baseText('error'));
 				console.error(error);
@@ -3762,11 +3772,13 @@ export function useCanvasOperations() {
 			historyStore.startRecordingUndo();
 		}
 
+		const addedNodesByInputIndex = new Map<number, INodeUi>();
 		const addedNodes = await addNodes(nodes, {
 			...options,
 			trackHistory,
 			trackBulk: false,
 			telemetry: true,
+			addedNodesByInputIndex,
 		});
 
 		let replacementGroupId: string | undefined;
@@ -3775,7 +3787,9 @@ export function useCanvasOperations() {
 			// must not become the replacement target.
 			const replacementNodeIndex = nodes.findLastIndex((node) => !node.isAutoAdd);
 			const replacementNode =
-				replacementNodeIndex === -1 ? addedNodes.at(-1) : addedNodes[replacementNodeIndex];
+				replacementNodeIndex === -1
+					? addedNodes.at(-1)
+					: addedNodesByInputIndex.get(replacementNodeIndex);
 			if (replacementNode) {
 				const didReplace = replaceNode(options.replaceNodeId, replacementNode.id, {
 					trackHistory,
@@ -3787,37 +3801,39 @@ export function useCanvasOperations() {
 			}
 		}
 
-		const allNodes = workflowDocumentStore.value.allNodes;
-		const offsetIndex = allNodes.length - nodes.length;
-		const connections: CanvasConnectionCreateData[] = addedConnections.map(({ from, to }) => {
-			const fromNode = allNodes[offsetIndex + from.nodeIndex];
-			const toNode = allNodes[offsetIndex + to.nodeIndex];
+		const connections: CanvasConnectionCreateData[] = addedConnections.flatMap(({ from, to }) => {
+			const fromNode = addedNodesByInputIndex.get(from.nodeIndex);
+			const toNode = addedNodesByInputIndex.get(to.nodeIndex);
+			if (!fromNode || !toNode) return [];
+
 			const type = from.type ?? to.type ?? NodeConnectionTypes.Main;
 
-			return {
-				source: fromNode.id,
-				sourceHandle: createCanvasConnectionHandleString({
-					mode: CanvasConnectionMode.Output,
-					type: isValidNodeConnectionType(type) ? type : NodeConnectionTypes.Main,
-					index: from.outputIndex ?? 0,
-				}),
-				target: toNode.id,
-				targetHandle: createCanvasConnectionHandleString({
-					mode: CanvasConnectionMode.Input,
-					type: isValidNodeConnectionType(type) ? type : NodeConnectionTypes.Main,
-					index: to.inputIndex ?? 0,
-				}),
-				data: {
-					source: {
+			return [
+				{
+					source: fromNode.id,
+					sourceHandle: createCanvasConnectionHandleString({
+						mode: CanvasConnectionMode.Output,
+						type: isValidNodeConnectionType(type) ? type : NodeConnectionTypes.Main,
 						index: from.outputIndex ?? 0,
-						type,
-					},
-					target: {
+					}),
+					target: toNode.id,
+					targetHandle: createCanvasConnectionHandleString({
+						mode: CanvasConnectionMode.Input,
+						type: isValidNodeConnectionType(type) ? type : NodeConnectionTypes.Main,
 						index: to.inputIndex ?? 0,
-						type,
+					}),
+					data: {
+						source: {
+							index: from.outputIndex ?? 0,
+							type,
+						},
+						target: {
+							index: to.inputIndex ?? 0,
+							type,
+						},
 					},
 				},
-			};
+			];
 		});
 
 		await addConnections(connections, { trackHistory, trackBulk: false });
diff --git a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/app/constants/nodeCreator.ts b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/app/constants/nodeCreator.ts
index db29aac29fb..5b4b17dcbb5 100644
--- a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/app/constants/nodeCreator.ts
+++ b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/app/constants/nodeCreator.ts
@@ -23,6 +23,15 @@ export const NODE_CREATOR_OPEN_SOURCES: Record<
 	INSTANCE_AI: 'instance_ai',
 	'': '',
 };
+
+export function isNodeCreatorOpenFromConnection(source: NodeCreatorOpenSource) {
+	return [
+		NODE_CREATOR_OPEN_SOURCES.PLUS_ENDPOINT,
+		NODE_CREATOR_OPEN_SOURCES.NODE_CONNECTION_ACTION,
+		NODE_CREATOR_OPEN_SOURCES.NODE_CONNECTION_DROP,
+	].includes(source);
+}
+
 export const CORE_NODES_CATEGORY = 'Core Nodes';
 export const HUMAN_IN_THE_LOOP_CATEGORY = 'HITL';
 export const CUSTOM_NODES_CATEGORY = 'Custom Nodes';
diff --git a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/app/views/NodeView.test.ts b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/app/views/NodeView.test.ts
index 7c2bc9ee1bd..7eb2c00a97e 100644
--- a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/app/views/NodeView.test.ts
+++ b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/app/views/NodeView.test.ts
@@ -6,6 +6,7 @@ import {
 	EVALUATION_TRIGGER_NODE_TYPE,
 	MANUAL_TRIGGER_NODE_TYPE,
 	NodeConnectionTypes,
+	isEmptyGroupAnchor,
 } from 'n8n-workflow';
 import {
 	createWorkflowDocumentId,
@@ -19,14 +20,28 @@ import { useNodeTypesStore } from '../stores/nodeTypes.store';
 import { useSourceControlStore } from '@/features/integrations/sourceControl.ee/sourceControl.store';
 import { renderComponent } from '@/__tests__/render';
 import NodeView from './NodeView.vue';
-import { NO_OP_NODE_TYPE, SPLIT_IN_BATCHES_NODE_TYPE, VIEWS } from '../constants';
+import {
+	NODE_CREATOR_OPEN_SOURCES,
+	NO_OP_NODE_TYPE,
+	SET_NODE_TYPE,
+	SPLIT_IN_BATCHES_NODE_TYPE,
+	VIEWS,
+} from '../constants';
 import { WorkflowIdKey, WorkflowDocumentStoreKey } from '../constants/injectionKeys';
 import { computed, defineComponent, nextTick, shallowRef } from 'vue';
 import { nodeViewEventBus } from '@/app/event-bus';
 import { useProjectsStore } from '@/features/collaboration/projects/projects.store';
 import type { Project } from '@/features/collaboration/projects/projects.types';
 import { useHistoryStore } from '@/app/stores/history.store';
-import { AddNodeCommand, AddNodeGroupCommand, BulkCommand } from '@/app/models/history';
+import {
+	AddConnectionCommand,
+	AddNodeCommand,
+	AddNodeGroupCommand,
+	BulkCommand,
+} from '@/app/models/history';
+import { useNodeCreatorStore } from '@/features/shared/nodeCreator/nodeCreator.store';
+import { useCanvasStore } from '@/app/stores/canvas.store';
+import { DEFAULT_NODE_SIZE, snapPositionToGrid } from '@/app/utils/nodeViewUtils';
 import { useTypeAvailabilityPoliciesStore } from '@n8n/frontend-module-type-availability-policies';
 
 const mockMcpJsonNudgeGate = vi.hoisted(() => vi.fn());
@@ -122,7 +137,7 @@ describe('NodeView', () => {
 				stubs: {
 					// Component stubs avoid loading async subtrees that can outlive the test environment.
 					LazyNodeCreation: defineComponent({
-						emits: ['addEmptyGroup', 'addNodes'],
+						emits: ['addEmptyGroup', 'addNodes', 'toggleNodeCreator', 'close'],
 						setup(_, { emit }) {
 							return {
 								addLoopReplacement: () => emit('addNodes', loopReplacementBatch),
@@ -131,22 +146,27 @@ describe('NodeView', () => {
 						template: `<>
 							<button
 								data-test-id="node-creation-stub-add-empty-group"
-								@click="$emit('addEmptyGroup', [320, 240])"
+								@click="$emit('addEmptyGroup', false)"
 							/>
 							<button
 								data-test-id="node-creation-stub-add-empty-groups"
-								@click="$emit('addEmptyGroup', [320, 240]); $emit('addEmptyGroup', [640, 480])"
+								@click="$emit('addEmptyGroup', false); $emit('addEmptyGroup', false)"
 							/>
 							<button
 								data-test-id="node-creation-stub-add-loop-replacement"
 								@click="addLoopReplacement"
 							/>
+							<button
+								data-test-id="node-creation-stub-add-node"
+								@click="$emit('addNodes', { nodes: [{ type: '${SET_NODE_TYPE}', name: 'Added' }], connections: [] }); $emit('toggleNodeCreator', { createNodeActive: false, hasAddedNodes: true }); $emit('close')"
+							/>
 						</>`,
 					}),
 					LazySetupWorkflowCredentialsButton: { render: () => null },
 					WorkflowCanvas: defineComponent({
-						emits: ['copy:nodes', 'replace:node'],
+						emits: ['copy:nodes', 'replace:node', 'viewport:change'],
 						setup(_, { emit, expose }) {
+							const canvasStore = useCanvasStore();
 							expose({ ensureNodesAreVisible });
 							return {
 								copyNodeIds,
@@ -154,11 +174,20 @@ describe('NodeView', () => {
 									const nodeId = workflowDocStore.allNodes[0]?.id;
 									if (nodeId) emit('replace:node', nodeId);
 								},
+								selectFirstGroup: () => {
+									const groupId = workflowDocStore.allGroups[0]?.id;
+									if (groupId) canvasStore.setSelectedGroupId(groupId);
+								},
 							};
 						},
 						template: `<div>
 							<button data-test-id="canvas-stub-copy" @click="$emit('copy:nodes', copyNodeIds)" />
 							<button data-test-id="canvas-stub-replace-first" @click="replaceFirstNode" />
+							<button data-test-id="canvas-stub-select-first-group" @click="selectFirstGroup" />
+							<button
+								data-test-id="canvas-stub-set-viewport"
+								@click="$emit('viewport:change', { x: 0, y: 0, zoom: 1 }, { width: 1000, height: 1000 })"
+							/>
 							<slot />
 						</div>`,
 					}),
@@ -167,7 +196,7 @@ describe('NodeView', () => {
 		});
 	}
 
-	describe('Empty group creation', () => {
+	describe('Node group creation and output-plus behavior', () => {
 		function addReplacementNodeTypes() {
 			useNodeTypesStore().setNodeTypes([
 				mockNodeTypeDescription({
@@ -193,7 +222,6 @@ describe('NodeView', () => {
 				}),
 			]);
 		}
-
 		it('creates a marked NoOp and its group as one undoable action', async () => {
 			routeMock.meta = { nodeView: true };
 			useWorkflowsListStore().addWorkflow(
@@ -223,7 +251,6 @@ describe('NodeView', () => {
 			expect(anchor).toMatchObject({
 				type: NO_OP_NODE_TYPE,
 				name: 'No Operation, do nothing',
-				position: [320, 240],
 				parameters: { emptyGroupAnchor: true },
 				placeholder: true,
 			});
@@ -271,6 +298,291 @@ describe('NodeView', () => {
 			expect(useHistoryStore().undoStack).toHaveLength(1);
 		});
 
+		it('centers the first empty group and collision-adjusts later groups', async () => {
+			routeMock.meta = { nodeView: true };
+			useWorkflowsListStore().addWorkflow(
+				createTestWorkflow({ id: 'w0', scopes: ['workflow:read', 'workflow:update'] }),
+			);
+			useNodeTypesStore().setNodeTypes([
+				mockNodeTypeDescription({
+					name: NO_OP_NODE_TYPE,
+					displayName: 'No Operation, do nothing',
+					properties: [],
+				}),
+			]);
+			const { findByTestId } = renderNodeView();
+			await userEvent.click(await findByTestId('canvas-stub-set-viewport'));
+			const addEmptyGroup = await findByTestId('node-creation-stub-add-empty-group');
+
+			await userEvent.click(addEmptyGroup);
+			await waitFor(() => expect(workflowDocumentStore.allGroups).toHaveLength(1));
+			const firstPosition = workflowDocumentStore.allNodes[0].position;
+			expect(firstPosition).toEqual(
+				snapPositionToGrid([500 - DEFAULT_NODE_SIZE[0] / 2, 500 - DEFAULT_NODE_SIZE[1] / 2]),
+			);
+
+			await userEvent.click(addEmptyGroup);
+			await waitFor(() => expect(workflowDocumentStore.allGroups).toHaveLength(2));
+
+			expect(workflowDocumentStore.allNodes[1].position).not.toEqual(firstPosition);
+		});
+
+		it('connects a new empty group to the selected empty group', async () => {
+			routeMock.meta = { nodeView: true };
+			useWorkflowsListStore().addWorkflow(
+				createTestWorkflow({ id: 'w0', scopes: ['workflow:read', 'workflow:update'] }),
+			);
+			useNodeTypesStore().setNodeTypes([
+				mockNodeTypeDescription({
+					name: NO_OP_NODE_TYPE,
+					displayName: 'No Operation, do nothing',
+					inputs: [NodeConnectionTypes.Main],
+					outputs: [NodeConnectionTypes.Main],
+					properties: [
+						{
+							displayName: 'Empty Group Anchor',
+							name: 'emptyGroupAnchor',
+							type: 'hidden',
+							default: false,
+							validateType: undefined,
+						},
+					],
+				}),
+			]);
+			const { findByTestId } = renderNodeView();
+			await userEvent.click(await findByTestId('canvas-stub-set-viewport'));
+			const addEmptyGroup = await findByTestId('node-creation-stub-add-empty-group');
+
+			await userEvent.click(addEmptyGroup);
+			await waitFor(() => expect(workflowDocumentStore.allGroups).toHaveLength(1));
+			const firstAnchor = workflowDocumentStore.allNodes[0];
+			expect(isEmptyGroupAnchor(firstAnchor)).toBe(true);
+			expect(workflowDocumentStore.allGroups[0].nodeIds).toEqual([firstAnchor.id]);
+			await userEvent.click(await findByTestId('canvas-stub-select-first-group'));
+
+			await userEvent.click(addEmptyGroup);
+			await waitFor(() => expect(workflowDocumentStore.allGroups).toHaveLength(2));
+			const secondGroup = workflowDocumentStore.allGroups[1];
+			const secondAnchor = workflowDocumentStore.allNodes[1];
+
+			expect(secondGroup.nodeIds).toEqual([secondAnchor.id]);
+			expect(secondAnchor.position[0]).toBeGreaterThan(firstAnchor.position[0]);
+			expect(workflowDocumentStore.connectionsBySourceNode).toMatchObject({
+				[firstAnchor.name]: {
+					[NodeConnectionTypes.Main]: [
+						[{ node: secondAnchor.name, type: NodeConnectionTypes.Main, index: 0 }],
+					],
+				},
+			});
+
+			const historyStore = useHistoryStore();
+			expect(historyStore.undoStack).toHaveLength(2);
+			const secondGroupAction = historyStore.undoStack[1];
+			expect(secondGroupAction).toBeInstanceOf(BulkCommand);
+			if (!(secondGroupAction instanceof BulkCommand)) {
+				throw new Error('Expected a bulk history action');
+			}
+			expect(secondGroupAction.commands).toEqual([
+				expect.any(AddNodeCommand),
+				expect.any(AddConnectionCommand),
+				expect.any(AddNodeGroupCommand),
+			]);
+		});
+
+		it("keeps a node added through a regular group's output plus outside the group", async () => {
+			routeMock.meta = { nodeView: true };
+			useWorkflowsListStore().addWorkflow(
+				createTestWorkflow({ id: 'w0', scopes: ['workflow:read', 'workflow:update'] }),
+			);
+			useNodeTypesStore().setNodeTypes([
+				mockNodeTypeDescription({
+					name: SET_NODE_TYPE,
+					inputs: [NodeConnectionTypes.Main],
+					outputs: [NodeConnectionTypes.Main],
+				}),
+			]);
+			const { findByTestId } = renderNodeView();
+			const source = createTestNode({
+				id: 'source',
+				name: 'Source',
+				type: SET_NODE_TYPE,
+				position: [0, 0],
+			});
+			workflowDocumentStore.addNode(source);
+			const group = workflowDocumentStore.createGroup([source.id], 'Group 1');
+
+			useNodeCreatorStore().openNodeCreatorForConnectingNode({
+				workflowId: workflowDocumentStore.workflowId,
+				connection: {
+					source: source.id,
+					sourceHandle: `outputs/${NodeConnectionTypes.Main}/0`,
+				},
+				eventSource: NODE_CREATOR_OPEN_SOURCES.PLUS_ENDPOINT,
+			});
+			await userEvent.click(await findByTestId('node-creation-stub-add-node'));
+
+			await waitFor(() => expect(workflowDocumentStore.allNodes).toHaveLength(2));
+			const addedNode = workflowDocumentStore.allNodes.find(({ id }) => id !== source.id);
+			expect(addedNode).toBeDefined();
+			expect(workflowDocumentStore.getGroupById(group.id)?.nodeIds).toEqual([source.id]);
+			expect(workflowDocumentStore.connectionsBySourceNode).toMatchObject({
+				[source.name]: {
+					[NodeConnectionTypes.Main]: [
+						[{ node: addedNode?.name, type: NodeConnectionTypes.Main, index: 0 }],
+					],
+				},
+			});
+		});
+
+		it("keeps a node inserted from a regular group's outgoing edge outside the group", async () => {
+			routeMock.meta = { nodeView: true };
+			useWorkflowsListStore().addWorkflow(
+				createTestWorkflow({ id: 'w0', scopes: ['workflow:read', 'workflow:update'] }),
+			);
+			useNodeTypesStore().setNodeTypes([
+				mockNodeTypeDescription({
+					name: SET_NODE_TYPE,
+					inputs: [NodeConnectionTypes.Main],
+					outputs: [NodeConnectionTypes.Main],
+				}),
+			]);
+			const { findByTestId } = renderNodeView();
+			const source = createTestNode({
+				id: 'source',
+				name: 'Source',
+				type: SET_NODE_TYPE,
+				position: [0, 0],
+			});
+			const target = createTestNode({
+				id: 'target',
+				name: 'Target',
+				type: SET_NODE_TYPE,
+				position: [500, 0],
+			});
+			workflowDocumentStore.setNodes([source, target]);
+			workflowDocumentStore.setConnections({
+				[source.name]: {
+					[NodeConnectionTypes.Main]: [
+						[{ node: target.name, type: NodeConnectionTypes.Main, index: 0 }],
+					],
+				},
+			});
+			workflowDocumentStore.setNodeGroups([
+				{ id: 'loaded-group', name: 'Loaded group', nodeIds: [source.id] },
+			]);
+
+			useNodeCreatorStore().openNodeCreatorForConnectingNode({
+				workflowId: workflowDocumentStore.workflowId,
+				connection: {
+					source: source.id,
+					sourceHandle: `outputs/${NodeConnectionTypes.Main}/0`,
+					target: target.id,
+					targetHandle: `inputs/${NodeConnectionTypes.Main}/0`,
+				},
+				eventSource: NODE_CREATOR_OPEN_SOURCES.NODE_CONNECTION_ACTION,
+			});
+			await userEvent.click(await findByTestId('node-creation-stub-add-node'));
+
+			await waitFor(() => expect(workflowDocumentStore.getNodeByName('Added')).toBeDefined());
+			const addedNode = workflowDocumentStore.getNodeByName('Added');
+			expect(addedNode).toBeDefined();
+			expect(workflowDocumentStore.getGroupById('loaded-group')?.nodeIds).toEqual([source.id]);
+			expect(workflowDocumentStore.connectionsBySourceNode).toMatchObject({
+				[source.name]: {
+					[NodeConnectionTypes.Main]: [
+						[{ node: addedNode?.name, type: NodeConnectionTypes.Main, index: 0 }],
+					],
+				},
+				[addedNode?.name ?? '']: {
+					[NodeConnectionTypes.Main]: [
+						[{ node: target.name, type: NodeConnectionTypes.Main, index: 0 }],
+					],
+				},
+			});
+		});
+
+		it.each([
+			['plus endpoint', NODE_CREATOR_OPEN_SOURCES.PLUS_ENDPOINT],
+			['connection action', NODE_CREATOR_OPEN_SOURCES.NODE_CONNECTION_ACTION],
+			['connection drop', NODE_CREATOR_OPEN_SOURCES.NODE_CONNECTION_DROP],
+		] as const)(
+			'replaces the empty-group anchor from %s and restores it with undo',
+			async (_, eventSource) => {
+				routeMock.meta = { nodeView: true };
+				useWorkflowsListStore().addWorkflow(
+					createTestWorkflow({ id: 'w0', scopes: ['workflow:read', 'workflow:update'] }),
+				);
+				useNodeTypesStore().setNodeTypes([
+					mockNodeTypeDescription({
+						name: NO_OP_NODE_TYPE,
+						displayName: 'No Operation, do nothing',
+						inputs: [NodeConnectionTypes.Main],
+						outputs: [NodeConnectionTypes.Main],
+						properties: [
+							{
+								displayName: 'Empty Group Anchor',
+								name: 'emptyGroupAnchor',
+								type: 'hidden',
+								default: false,
+								validateType: undefined,
+							},
+						],
+					}),
+					mockNodeTypeDescription({
+						name: SET_NODE_TYPE,
+						inputs: [NodeConnectionTypes.Main],
+						outputs: [NodeConnectionTypes.Main],
+					}),
+				]);
+				const { findByTestId } = renderNodeView();
+
+				await userEvent.click(await findByTestId('node-creation-stub-add-empty-group'));
+				await waitFor(() => expect(workflowDocumentStore.allGroups).toHaveLength(1));
+				const group = workflowDocumentStore.allGroups[0];
+				const anchor = workflowDocumentStore.allNodes[0];
+
+				useNodeCreatorStore().openNodeCreatorForConnectingNode({
+					workflowId: workflowDocumentStore.workflowId,
+					connection: {
+						source: anchor.id,
+						sourceHandle: `outputs/${NodeConnectionTypes.Main}/0`,
+					},
+					eventSource,
+				});
+				await userEvent.click(await findByTestId('node-creation-stub-add-node'));
+
+				await waitFor(() => expect(workflowDocumentStore.allNodes[0]?.id).not.toBe(anchor.id));
+				expect(workflowDocumentStore.allNodes).toHaveLength(1);
+				const addedNode = workflowDocumentStore.allNodes[0];
+				expect(addedNode.id).not.toBe(anchor.id);
+				expect(isEmptyGroupAnchor(addedNode)).toBe(false);
+				expect(workflowDocumentStore.getGroupById(group.id)?.nodeIds).toEqual([addedNode.id]);
+
+				const historyStore = useHistoryStore();
+				expect(historyStore.undoStack).toHaveLength(2);
+				const transition = historyStore.undoStack[1];
+				expect(transition).toBeInstanceOf(BulkCommand);
+				if (!(transition instanceof BulkCommand)) throw new Error('Expected a bulk history action');
+
+				const redoCommands = [];
+				for (let index = transition.commands.length - 1; index >= 0; index--) {
+					const command = transition.commands[index];
+					await command.revert();
+					redoCommands.push(command.getReverseCommand(Date.now()));
+				}
+
+				await waitFor(() => expect(workflowDocumentStore.allNodes).toEqual([anchor]));
+				expect(workflowDocumentStore.getGroupById(group.id)?.nodeIds).toEqual([anchor.id]);
+
+				for (let index = redoCommands.length - 1; index >= 0; index--) {
+					await redoCommands[index].revert();
+				}
+
+				await waitFor(() => expect(workflowDocumentStore.allNodes).toEqual([addedNode]));
+				expect(workflowDocumentStore.getGroupById(group.id)?.nodeIds).toEqual([addedNode.id]);
+			},
+		);
+
 		it('replaces the empty-group anchor with the selected batch and restores it on undo', async () => {
 			routeMock.meta = { nodeView: true };
 			useWorkflowsListStore().addWorkflow(
diff --git a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/app/views/NodeView.vue b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/app/views/NodeView.vue
index 28140a7b311..7fdc4385622 100644
--- a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/app/views/NodeView.vue
+++ b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/app/views/NodeView.vue
@@ -68,6 +68,7 @@ import {
 	ABOUT_MODAL_KEY,
 	PRODUCTION_ONLY_TRIGGER_NODE_TYPES,
 	HUMAN_IN_THE_LOOP_CATEGORY,
+	isNodeCreatorOpenFromConnection,
 } from '@/app/constants';
 import { useSourceControlStore } from '@/features/integrations/sourceControl.ee/sourceControl.store';
 import { useNodeCreatorStore } from '@/features/shared/nodeCreator/nodeCreator.store';
@@ -76,6 +77,7 @@ import {
 	jsonParse,
 	EVALUATION_TRIGGER_NODE_TYPE,
 	EVALUATION_NODE_TYPE,
+	getEmptyGroupAnchor,
 	isTriggerNode,
 	NodeHelpers,
 	NodeConnectionTypes,
@@ -107,7 +109,7 @@ import { sourceControlEventBus } from '@/features/integrations/sourceControl.ee/
 import { useTagsStore } from '@/features/shared/tags/tags.store';
 
 import { injectNDVStore } from '@/features/ndv/shared/ndv.store';
-import { getBounds, getNodeViewTab } from '@/app/utils/nodeViewUtils';
+import { DEFAULT_NODE_SIZE, getBounds, getNodeViewTab } from '@/app/utils/nodeViewUtils';
 import { isChatNode } from '@/app/utils/aiUtils';
 import CanvasStopCurrentExecutionButton from '@/features/workflows/canvas/components/elements/buttons/CanvasStopCurrentExecutionButton.vue';
 import CanvasStopWaitingForWebhookButton from '@/features/workflows/canvas/components/elements/buttons/CanvasStopWaitingForWebhookButton.vue';
@@ -528,8 +530,8 @@ function onDeleteNode(id: string) {
 	}
 }
 
-function onDeleteNodes(ids: string[], deleteWholeGroups = false) {
-	deleteNodes(ids, { preserveEmptyGroupAnchor: !deleteWholeGroups });
+function onDeleteNodes(ids: string[], deleteWholeGroupIds: string[] = []) {
+	deleteNodes(ids, { deleteWholeGroupIds });
 }
 
 function onRevertDeleteNode({ node }: { node: INodeUi }) {
@@ -995,6 +997,23 @@ function onNodeCreatorClose() {
 	nodeCreatorReplaceTargetId.value = undefined;
 }
 
+function getOutputPlusEmptyGroupAnchorId(): string | undefined {
+	const isExplicitOutputAdd =
+		nodeCreatorStore.isCreateNodeActive &&
+		isNodeCreatorOpenFromConnection(nodeCreatorStore.openSource);
+	if (!isExplicitOutputAdd || !uiStore.lastInteractedWithNodeId) return undefined;
+
+	const { type, mode } = parseCanvasConnectionHandleString(uiStore.lastInteractedWithNodeHandle);
+	if (type !== NodeConnectionTypes.Main || mode !== CanvasConnectionMode.Output) return undefined;
+
+	const sourceNodeId = uiStore.lastInteractedWithNodeId;
+	const group = workflowDocumentStore.value.getGroupForNode(sourceNodeId);
+	if (!group) return undefined;
+
+	const anchor = getEmptyGroupAnchor(group, workflowDocumentStore.value.allNodes);
+	return anchor?.id === sourceNodeId ? anchor.id : undefined;
+}
+
 async function onAddNodesAndConnections(
 	{ nodes, connections }: AddedNodesAndConnections,
 	dragAndDrop = false,
@@ -1003,8 +1022,9 @@ async function onAddNodesAndConnections(
 	if (!checkIfEditingIsAllowed()) {
 		return;
 	}
+	const replaceNodeId = nodeCreatorReplaceTargetId.value ?? getOutputPlusEmptyGroupAnchorId();
 
-	if (nodeCreatorReplaceTargetId.value !== undefined) {
+	if (replaceNodeId !== undefined) {
 		uiStore.resetLastInteractedWith();
 
 		nodes = nodes.map((x) => ({
@@ -1018,7 +1038,7 @@ async function onAddNodesAndConnections(
 		position,
 		viewport: viewportBoundaries.value,
 		telemetry: true,
-		replaceNodeId: nodeCreatorReplaceTargetId.value,
+		replaceNodeId,
 	});
 
 	if (addedNodes.length > 0) {
@@ -1027,23 +1047,48 @@ async function onAddNodesAndConnections(
 	}
 }
 
-async function onAddEmptyGroup(position: XYPosition, connectToLastInteractedNode = false) {
+async function onAddEmptyGroup(connectToLastInteractedNode = false) {
 	if (!checkIfEditingIsAllowed() || isAddingEmptyGroup.value) return;
 	isAddingEmptyGroup.value = true;
+	// Seed generic placement at the viewport center while retaining collision handling for later groups.
+	if (
+		workflowDocumentStore.value.allNodes.length === 0 &&
+		viewportDimensions.value.width > 0 &&
+		viewportDimensions.value.height > 0
+	) {
+		const { xMin, xMax, yMin, yMax } = viewportBoundaries.value;
+		lastClickPosition.value = [
+			(xMin + xMax - DEFAULT_NODE_SIZE[0]) / 2,
+			(yMin + yMax - DEFAULT_NODE_SIZE[1]) / 2,
+		];
+	}
 
 	const ownsUndoBulk = historyStore.currentBulkAction === null;
 	if (ownsUndoBulk) historyStore.startRecordingUndo();
 
 	try {
+		const selectedGroup = canvasStore.selectedGroupId
+			? workflowDocumentStore.value.getGroupById(canvasStore.selectedGroupId)
+			: undefined;
+		const selectedEmptyGroupAnchor = selectedGroup
+			? getEmptyGroupAnchor(selectedGroup, workflowDocumentStore.value.allNodes)
+			: undefined;
+
+		// A selected empty group uses its hidden anchor as the normal add-node connection source.
+		if (!connectToLastInteractedNode && selectedEmptyGroupAnchor) {
+			uiStore.resetLastInteractedWith();
+			uiStore.lastInteractedWithNodeId = selectedEmptyGroupAnchor.id;
+		}
+		const shouldConnect = connectToLastInteractedNode || selectedEmptyGroupAnchor !== undefined;
+
 		const { addedNodes } = await addNodesAndConnections(
 			[
 				{
 					type: NO_OP_NODE_TYPE,
 					name: 'No Operation, do nothing',
-					position,
 					parameters: { emptyGroupAnchor: true },
 					placeholder: true,
-					isAutoAdd: !connectToLastInteractedNode,
+					isAutoAdd: !shouldConnect,
 					openDetail: false,
 				},
 			],
diff --git a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/execution/logs/components/LogsOverviewPanel.test.ts b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/execution/logs/components/LogsOverviewPanel.test.ts
index cec6581ce4b..5694af39530 100644
--- a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/execution/logs/components/LogsOverviewPanel.test.ts
+++ b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/execution/logs/components/LogsOverviewPanel.test.ts
@@ -23,6 +23,7 @@ import {
 import { createRunExecutionData, NodeConnectionTypes } from 'n8n-workflow';
 import { createLogTree, flattenLogEntries } from '../logs.utils';
 import type { useWorkflowDocumentStore } from '@/app/stores/workflowDocument.store';
+import { NO_OP_NODE_TYPE } from '@/app/constants';
 
 const { mockDocumentStore } = vi.hoisted(() => ({
 	mockDocumentStore: {
@@ -228,6 +229,41 @@ describe('LogsOverviewPanel', () => {
 		expect(groupRow.queryByRole('img')).not.toBeInTheDocument();
 	});
 
+	it('should render an empty group as a non-expandable row with an empty badge', async () => {
+		const anchor = createTestNode({
+			id: 'anchor',
+			name: 'Empty group anchor',
+			type: NO_OP_NODE_TYPE,
+			parameters: { emptyGroupAnchor: true },
+		});
+		const workflow = createTestWorkflowObject({ id: 'w1', nodes: [anchor] });
+		workflow.getNode(anchor.name)!.parameters = { emptyGroupAnchor: true };
+		const execution = createTestWorkflowExecutionResponse({
+			id: 'e1',
+			data: createRunExecutionData({
+				resultData: { runData: { [anchor.name]: [createTestTaskData()] } },
+			}),
+		});
+		const logs = createLogTree(workflow, execution, {}, {}, undefined, [
+			{ id: 'empty-group', name: 'Empty Group', nodeIds: [anchor.id] },
+		]);
+		const rendered = render({
+			isOpen: true,
+			execution,
+			entries: logs,
+			flatLogEntries: flattenLogEntries(logs, {}),
+		});
+
+		await fireEvent.click(rendered.getByText('Overview'));
+
+		const tree = within(rendered.getByRole('tree'));
+		const groupRow = within(tree.getByText('Empty Group').closest('[role=treeitem]')!);
+
+		expect(groupRow.getByTestId('logs-empty-group-badge')).toHaveTextContent('empty');
+		expect(groupRow.getByLabelText('Toggle row')).not.toBeVisible();
+		expect(tree.getAllByRole('treeitem')).toHaveLength(1);
+	});
+
 	it('reflects a running member in the group row status', async () => {
 		const workflow = createTestWorkflowObject({
 			id: 'w1',
diff --git a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/execution/logs/components/LogsOverviewRow.vue b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/execution/logs/components/LogsOverviewRow.vue
index 165879943a5..0766e320e49 100644
--- a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/execution/logs/components/LogsOverviewRow.vue
+++ b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/execution/logs/components/LogsOverviewRow.vue
@@ -13,6 +13,7 @@ import {
 	getGroupTiming,
 	getSubtreeTotalConsumedTokens,
 	hasSubExecution,
+	isEmptyGroupLog,
 } from '@/features/execution/logs/logs.utils';
 import { useTimestamp } from '@vueuse/core';
 import {
@@ -22,7 +23,14 @@ import {
 	isNodeLog,
 } from '@/features/execution/logs/logs.types';
 
-import { N8nButton, N8nIcon, N8nIconButton, N8nText, N8nTooltip } from '@n8n/design-system';
+import {
+	N8nBadge,
+	N8nButton,
+	N8nIcon,
+	N8nIconButton,
+	N8nText,
+	N8nTooltip,
+} from '@n8n/design-system';
 import AnimatedSpinner from '@/app/components/AnimatedSpinner.vue';
 const props = defineProps<{
 	data: LogEntry;
@@ -48,6 +56,7 @@ const now = useTimestamp({ interval: 1000 });
 const nodeTypeStore = useNodeTypesStore();
 const nodeData = computed(() => (isNodeLog(props.data) ? props.data : undefined));
 const groupData = computed(() => (isGroupLog(props.data) ? props.data : undefined));
+const isEmptyGroup = computed(() => isEmptyGroupLog(props.data));
 const runData = computed(() => nodeData.value?.runData);
 const type = computed(() =>
 	nodeData.value ? nodeTypeStore.getNodeType(nodeData.value.node.type) : null,
@@ -128,7 +137,9 @@ const subtreeConsumedTokens = computed(() =>
 	props.shouldShowTokenCountColumn ? getSubtreeTotalConsumedTokens(props.data, false) : undefined,
 );
 
-const hasChildren = computed(() => props.data.children.length > 0 || hasSubExecution(props.data));
+const hasChildren = computed(
+	() => !isEmptyGroup.value && (props.data.children.length > 0 || hasSubExecution(props.data)),
+);
 
 const indents = computed(() => {
 	const ret: Array<{ straight: boolean; curved: boolean }> = [];
@@ -173,7 +184,7 @@ watch(
 		ref="containerRef"
 		role="treeitem"
 		tabindex="-1"
-		:aria-expanded="props.data.children.length > 0 && props.expanded"
+		:aria-expanded="isEmptyGroup ? undefined : props.data.children.length > 0 && props.expanded"
 		:aria-selected="props.isSelected"
 		:class="{
 			[$style.container]: true,
@@ -200,6 +211,15 @@ watch(
 			:is-error="isError"
 			:is-deleted="latestInfo?.deleted ?? false"
 		/>
+		<N8nBadge
+			v-if="isEmptyGroup"
+			theme="tertiary"
+			size="xsmall"
+			:class="$style.emptyGroupBadge"
+			data-test-id="logs-empty-group-badge"
+		>
+			{{ locale.baseText('logs.overview.body.emptyGroup') }}
+		</N8nBadge>
 		<N8nText v-if="!isCompact" tag="div" color="text-light" size="small" :class="$style.timeTook">
 			<I18nT v-if="timeText !== undefined" :keypath="statusTextKeyPath" scope="global">
 				<template #status>
@@ -402,6 +422,12 @@ watch(
 	padding-inline-start: var(--spacing--2xs);
 }
 
+.emptyGroupBadge {
+	flex-grow: 0;
+	flex-shrink: 0;
+	padding: 0 var(--spacing--4xs);
+}
+
 .timeTook {
 	flex-grow: 0;
 	flex-shrink: 0;
diff --git a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/execution/logs/components/LogsPanel.test.ts b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/execution/logs/components/LogsPanel.test.ts
index 0944fe02563..30c234338e0 100644
--- a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/execution/logs/components/LogsPanel.test.ts
+++ b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/execution/logs/components/LogsPanel.test.ts
@@ -573,6 +573,27 @@ describe('LogsPanel', () => {
 			expect(await findByRole('treeitem', { selected: true })).toHaveTextContent(/AI Model/);
 		});
 
+		it('should handle arrow navigation without bubbling to canvas shortcuts', async () => {
+			const { getByTestId, findByRole } = render();
+			const overview = getByTestId('logs-overview');
+			const documentKeydown = vi.fn();
+			document.addEventListener('keydown', documentKeydown);
+
+			try {
+				await waitFor(async () =>
+					expect(await findByRole('treeitem', { selected: true })).toHaveTextContent(/AI Model/),
+				);
+				await fireEvent.keyDown(overview, { key: 'ArrowUp' });
+
+				expect(await findByRole('treeitem', { selected: true })).toHaveTextContent(/AI Agent/);
+				await fireEvent.keyDown(overview, { key: 'ArrowDown' });
+				expect(await findByRole('treeitem', { selected: true })).toHaveTextContent(/AI Model/);
+				expect(documentKeydown).not.toHaveBeenCalled();
+			} finally {
+				document.removeEventListener('keydown', documentKeydown);
+			}
+		});
+
 		it('should not select a log for the selected node on canvas if sync is disabled', async () => {
 			logsStore.toggleLogSelectionSync(false);
 
diff --git a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/execution/logs/components/LogsPanel.vue b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/execution/logs/components/LogsPanel.vue
index 63dc0d9c2bc..92f50f08e49 100644
--- a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/execution/logs/components/LogsPanel.vue
+++ b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/execution/logs/components/LogsPanel.vue
@@ -96,6 +96,7 @@ const keyMap = computed<KeyMap>(() => ({
 	j: selectNext,
 	k: selectPrev,
 	Escape: () => select(undefined),
+	// Keep the existing container-wide shortcuts as a fallback.
 	ArrowDown: selectNext,
 	ArrowUp: selectPrev,
 	Space: () => selected.value && toggleExpanded(selected.value),
@@ -110,6 +111,20 @@ const keyMap = computed<KeyMap>(() => ({
 		: {}),
 }));
 
+function handleArrowNavigation(event: KeyboardEvent) {
+	// Handle overview navigation before the event reaches the canvas's document-level shortcuts.
+	if (event.key === 'ArrowDown') {
+		selectNext();
+	} else if (event.key === 'ArrowUp') {
+		selectPrev();
+	} else {
+		return;
+	}
+
+	event.preventDefault();
+	event.stopPropagation();
+}
+
 function handleResizeOverviewPanelEnd() {
 	if (isOverviewPanelFullWidth.value) {
 		select(undefined);
@@ -211,6 +226,7 @@ function handleChangeOutputTableColumnCollapsing(columnName: string | null) {
 								:latest-node-info="latestNodeNameById"
 								:flat-log-entries="flatLogEntries"
 								:is-header-clickable="!isPoppedOut"
+								@keydown="handleArrowNavigation"
 								@click-header="onToggleOpen"
 								@select="select"
 								@clear-execution-data="resetExecutionData"
diff --git a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/execution/logs/logs.utils.test.ts b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/execution/logs/logs.utils.test.ts
index 74042663230..af34c9bc55d 100644
--- a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/execution/logs/logs.utils.test.ts
+++ b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/execution/logs/logs.utils.test.ts
@@ -7,6 +7,7 @@ import {
 } from '@/__tests__/mocks';
 import {
 	createLogTree,
+	flattenLogEntries,
 	findSelectedLogEntry,
 	findSubExecutionLocator,
 	getDefaultCollapsedEntries,
@@ -14,6 +15,7 @@ import {
 	getGroupTiming,
 	getSubtreeTotalConsumedTokens,
 	getTreeNodeData,
+	isEmptyGroupLog,
 	isSubNodeLog,
 	mergeStartData,
 	restoreChatHistory,
@@ -43,7 +45,7 @@ import {
 } from './logs.types';
 import type { IExecutionResponse } from '@/features/execution/executions/executions.types';
 import { createTestLogEntry } from './__test__/mocks';
-import { AGENT_NODE_TYPE, CHAT_TRIGGER_NODE_TYPE } from '@/app/constants';
+import { AGENT_NODE_TYPE, CHAT_TRIGGER_NODE_TYPE, NO_OP_NODE_TYPE } from '@/app/constants';
 
 // A log tree of node entries only, all the way down (overrides the union-typed
 // `children`/`parent` so assertions can read `.node`/`.runData` at any depth).
@@ -1989,6 +1991,30 @@ describe('createLogTree with canvas groups', () => {
 		expect(logs.map((e) => e.type)).toEqual(['node', 'node', 'node', 'node']);
 	});
 
+	it('does not expose an empty-group anchor as an expandable child', () => {
+		const anchor = createTestNode({
+			id: 'anchor',
+			name: 'Empty group anchor',
+			type: NO_OP_NODE_TYPE,
+			parameters: { emptyGroupAnchor: true },
+		});
+		const workflow = createTestWorkflowObject({ id: 'w1', nodes: [anchor] });
+		workflow.getNode(anchor.name)!.parameters = { emptyGroupAnchor: true };
+		const response = createTestWorkflowExecutionResponse({
+			id: 'e1',
+			data: createRunExecutionData({
+				resultData: { runData: { [anchor.name]: [createTestTaskData()] } },
+			}),
+		});
+		const logs = createLogTree(workflow, response, {}, {}, undefined, [
+			{ id: 'empty-group', name: 'Empty Group', nodeIds: [anchor.id] },
+		]);
+		const groupEntry = expectGroup(logs[0]);
+
+		expect(isEmptyGroupLog(groupEntry)).toBe(true);
+		expect(flattenLogEntries(logs, {})).toEqual([groupEntry]);
+	});
+
 	it('folds contiguous grouped nodes into a single group segment', () => {
 		const logs = createLogTree(createLinearWorkflow(), linearResponse(), {}, {}, undefined, [
 			group,
diff --git a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/execution/logs/logs.utils.ts b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/execution/logs/logs.utils.ts
index 3ba85efa268..8494c82bc3e 100644
--- a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/execution/logs/logs.utils.ts
+++ b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/execution/logs/logs.utils.ts
@@ -17,6 +17,7 @@ import {
 	type IWorkflowGroup,
 	createEmptyRunExecutionData,
 	createRunExecutionData,
+	isEmptyGroupAnchor,
 } from 'n8n-workflow';
 import {
 	type GroupBoundaryRunData,
@@ -661,7 +662,7 @@ export function flattenLogEntries(
 	for (const entry of entries) {
 		ret.push(entry);
 
-		if (!collapsedEntryIds[entry.id]) {
+		if (!collapsedEntryIds[entry.id] && !isEmptyGroupLog(entry)) {
 			flattenLogEntries(entry.children, collapsedEntryIds, ret);
 		}
 	}
@@ -669,6 +670,15 @@ export function flattenLogEntries(
 	return ret;
 }
 
+export function isEmptyGroupLog(entry: LogEntry): entry is GroupLogEntry {
+	if (!isGroupLog(entry) || entry.group.nodeIds.length !== 1) return false;
+
+	const [anchorId] = entry.group.nodeIds;
+	return entry.children.some(
+		(child) => isNodeLog(child) && child.node.id === anchorId && isEmptyGroupAnchor(child.node),
+	);
+}
+
 export function getEntryAtRelativeIndex(
 	entries: LogEntry[],
 	id: string,
diff --git a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/shared/contextMenu/composables/useContextMenu.test.ts b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/shared/contextMenu/composables/useContextMenu.test.ts
index bc46b20d041..81abd96e6d2 100644
--- a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/shared/contextMenu/composables/useContextMenu.test.ts
+++ b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/shared/contextMenu/composables/useContextMenu.test.ts
@@ -323,6 +323,35 @@ describe('useContextMenu', () => {
 			);
 		});
 
+		it('hides ungroup and convert actions for an empty group', () => {
+			const anchor = nodeFactory({ parameters: { emptyGroupAnchor: true } });
+			workflowDocumentStore.setNodes([...nodes, anchor]);
+			const group = workflowDocumentStore.createGroup([anchor.id], 'Empty group');
+			const { open, actions } = useContextMenu();
+			open(mockEvent, { source: 'group', groupId: group.id, nodeIds: group.nodeIds });
+
+			const ids = actions.value.map((action) => action.id);
+			expect(ids).not.toContain('ungroup_nodes');
+			expect(ids).not.toContain('extract_sub_workflow');
+			expect(ids).toContain('rename_group');
+		});
+
+		it('refreshes the target to the anchor when the last real member is deleted', () => {
+			const anchor = nodeFactory({ parameters: { emptyGroupAnchor: true } });
+			workflowDocumentStore.setNodes([...nodes, anchor]);
+			const group = workflowDocumentStore.createGroup([nodes[0].id], 'Empty group');
+			const { open, actions, targetNodeIds } = useContextMenu();
+			open(mockEvent, { source: 'group', groupId: group.id, nodeIds: group.nodeIds });
+
+			workflowDocumentStore.replaceNodeInGroup(group.id, nodes[0].id, anchor.id);
+			workflowDocumentStore.setNodes([...nodes.slice(1), anchor]);
+
+			expect(targetNodeIds.value).toEqual([anchor.id]);
+			const ids = actions.value.map((action) => action.id);
+			expect(ids).not.toContain('ungroup_nodes');
+			expect(ids).not.toContain('extract_sub_workflow');
+		});
+
 		it('falls back to the group actions alone when no member node resolves', () => {
 			const group = workflowDocumentStore.createGroup([nodes[0].id], 'My group');
 			const { open, actions } = useContextMenu();
diff --git a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/shared/contextMenu/composables/useContextMenu.ts b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/shared/contextMenu/composables/useContextMenu.ts
index d619bbdd9cd..306076a2dee 100644
--- a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/shared/contextMenu/composables/useContextMenu.ts
+++ b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/shared/contextMenu/composables/useContextMenu.ts
@@ -3,6 +3,9 @@ import { useUIStore } from '@/app/stores/ui.store';
 import { computed, ref, watch } from 'vue';
 import { getMousePosition } from '@/app/utils/nodeViewUtils';
 import { useContextMenuItems, type ContextMenuAction } from './useContextMenuItems';
+import { getEmptyGroupAnchor } from 'n8n-workflow';
+import { isPresent } from '@/app/utils/typesUtils';
+import { injectWorkflowDocumentStore } from '@/app/stores/workflowDocument.store';
 
 export type ContextMenuTarget = {
 	readOnly?: boolean;
@@ -28,15 +31,26 @@ function getTargetEntityId(menuTarget: ContextMenuTarget): string | undefined {
 
 export const useContextMenu = () => {
 	const uiStore = useUIStore();
+	const workflowDocumentStore = injectWorkflowDocumentStore();
 	const isOpen = computed(() => target.value !== undefined);
 
 	const targetNodeIds = computed(() => {
 		if (!target.value) return [];
 
 		const currentTarget = target.value;
-		return currentTarget.source === 'canvas' || currentTarget.source === 'group'
-			? currentTarget.nodeIds
-			: [currentTarget.nodeId];
+		if (currentTarget.source !== 'group') {
+			return currentTarget.source === 'canvas' ? currentTarget.nodeIds : [currentTarget.nodeId];
+		}
+
+		const group = workflowDocumentStore?.value?.getGroupById(currentTarget.groupId);
+		if (!group) return currentTarget.nodeIds;
+
+		const currentMemberNodes = group.nodeIds
+			.map((nodeId) => workflowDocumentStore?.value?.getNodeById(nodeId))
+			.filter(isPresent);
+		const anchor = getEmptyGroupAnchor(group, currentMemberNodes);
+
+		return anchor ? [anchor.id] : currentTarget.nodeIds;
 	});
 
 	const targetGroupId = computed(() =>
diff --git a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/shared/contextMenu/composables/useContextMenuItems.ts b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/shared/contextMenu/composables/useContextMenuItems.ts
index 2be73d55399..20c43944416 100644
--- a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/shared/contextMenu/composables/useContextMenuItems.ts
+++ b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/shared/contextMenu/composables/useContextMenuItems.ts
@@ -15,7 +15,7 @@ import { CANVAS_NODE_CONTEXT_FLAG } from '@n8n/api-types';
 import { getResourcePermissions } from '@n8n/permissions';
 import { useSettingsStore } from '@n8n/stores/settings.store';
 import type { INode, INodeTypeDescription } from 'n8n-workflow';
-import { NodeHelpers, WEBHOOK_NODE_TYPE } from 'n8n-workflow';
+import { getEmptyGroupAnchor, NodeHelpers, WEBHOOK_NODE_TYPE } from 'n8n-workflow';
 import { computed, type ComputedRef } from 'vue';
 import { isPresent } from '@/app/utils/typesUtils';
 import { useEditorContext } from '@/app/composables/useEditorContext';
@@ -134,6 +134,14 @@ export function useContextMenuItems(
 			.filter(isPresent),
 	);
 
+	const isEmptyGroupTarget = computed(() => {
+		const groupId = targetGroupId?.value;
+		if (!groupId) return false;
+
+		const group = workflowDocumentStore?.value?.getGroupById(groupId);
+		return group !== undefined && getEmptyGroupAnchor(group, targetNodes.value) !== undefined;
+	});
+
 	// Mirrors the Cmd+G eligibility — the same resolver also produces the
 	// member ids at execution time, so enablement can't diverge from it.
 	const canGroupTargetNodes = computed(() => resolveGroupableNodeIds(targetNodeIds.value) !== null);
@@ -257,12 +265,16 @@ export function useContextMenuItems(
 						shortcut: { keys: ['Space'] },
 						disabled: isReadOnly.value,
 					},
-					{
-						id: 'ungroup_nodes',
-						label: i18n.baseText('contextMenu.ungroupNodes'),
-						shortcut: { metaKey: true, shiftKey: true, keys: ['G'] },
-						disabled: isReadOnly.value,
-					},
+					...(!isEmptyGroupTarget.value
+						? [
+								{
+									id: 'ungroup_nodes' as const,
+									label: i18n.baseText('contextMenu.ungroupNodes'),
+									shortcut: { metaKey: true, shiftKey: true, keys: ['G'] },
+									disabled: isReadOnly.value,
+								},
+							]
+						: []),
 					...groupDescriptionActions,
 				]
 			: [];
@@ -313,15 +325,17 @@ export function useContextMenuItems(
 			},
 		];
 
-		const extractionActions: Item[] = [
-			{
-				id: 'extract_sub_workflow',
-				divided: true,
-				label: i18n.baseText('contextMenu.extract', i18nOptions),
-				shortcut: { altKey: true, keys: ['X'] },
-				disabled: isReadOnly.value,
-			},
-		];
+		const extractionActions: Item[] = isEmptyGroupTarget.value
+			? []
+			: [
+					{
+						id: 'extract_sub_workflow',
+						divided: true,
+						label: i18n.baseText('contextMenu.extract', i18nOptions),
+						shortcut: { altKey: true, keys: ['X'] },
+						disabled: isReadOnly.value,
+					},
+				];
 
 		// Grouping doesn't apply to an existing group — it offers ungroup instead.
 		const groupingActions: Item[] = !isGroupTarget
diff --git a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/shared/nodeCreator/components/Panel/NodesListPanel.test.ts b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/shared/nodeCreator/components/Panel/NodesListPanel.test.ts
index c284aeebe82..16abee49625 100644
--- a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/shared/nodeCreator/components/Panel/NodesListPanel.test.ts
+++ b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/shared/nodeCreator/components/Panel/NodesListPanel.test.ts
@@ -8,7 +8,11 @@ import { useViewStacks } from '@/features/shared/nodeCreator/composables/useView
 import { mockRestrictedNodeTypes } from '@/__tests__/mocks';
 import { mockSimplifiedNodeType } from '../../__tests__/utils';
 import NodesListPanel from './NodesListPanel.vue';
-import { REGULAR_NODE_CREATOR_VIEW, DEBOUNCE_TIME } from '@/app/constants';
+import {
+	REGULAR_NODE_CREATOR_VIEW,
+	DEBOUNCE_TIME,
+	NODE_CREATOR_OPEN_SOURCES,
+} from '@/app/constants';
 import type { ActionTypeDescription, NodeFilterType, SimplifiedNodeType } from '@/Interface';
 import { createComponentRenderer } from '@/__tests__/render';
 import { createTestNode } from '@/__tests__/mocks';
@@ -16,6 +20,7 @@ import {
 	createWorkflowDocumentId,
 	useWorkflowDocumentStore,
 } from '@/app/stores/workflowDocument.store';
+import { useUIStore } from '@/app/stores/ui.store';
 
 vi.mock('@/app/composables/useExternalHooks', () => ({
 	useExternalHooks: () => ({ run: vi.fn().mockResolvedValue(undefined) }),
@@ -301,6 +306,57 @@ describe('NodesListPanel', () => {
 		});
 	});
 
+	describe('Group command visibility', () => {
+		function renderWithConnectionSource({ grouped }: { grouped: boolean }) {
+			return getWrapperComponent(() => {
+				const source = createTestNode({ id: 'source', name: 'Source' });
+				const workflowDocumentStore = useWorkflowDocumentStore(createWorkflowDocumentId(''));
+				workflowDocumentStore.setNodes([source]);
+				if (grouped) workflowDocumentStore.createGroup([source.id], 'Group 1');
+
+				useUIStore().lastInteractedWithNodeId = source.id;
+				const nodeCreatorStore = useNodeCreatorStore();
+				nodeCreatorStore.openSource = NODE_CREATOR_OPEN_SOURCES.PLUS_ENDPOINT;
+				nodeCreatorStore.setSelectedView(REGULAR_NODE_CREATOR_VIEW);
+			});
+		}
+
+		it('hides Group when adding from a plus inside a group', async () => {
+			renderWithConnectionSource({ grouped: true });
+			await nextTick();
+
+			expect(screen.queryByText('Group')).not.toBeInTheDocument();
+			await fireEvent.input(screen.getByTestId('node-creator-search-bar'), {
+				target: { value: 'group' },
+			});
+			await waitFor(() => expect(screen.queryByText('Group')).not.toBeInTheDocument());
+		});
+
+		it('shows Group when adding from a plus outside a group', async () => {
+			renderWithConnectionSource({ grouped: false });
+			await nextTick();
+
+			expect(screen.getByText('Group')).toBeInTheDocument();
+		});
+
+		it('shows Group from the global node creator despite stale grouped-node state', async () => {
+			getWrapperComponent(() => {
+				const source = createTestNode({ id: 'source', name: 'Source' });
+				const workflowDocumentStore = useWorkflowDocumentStore(createWorkflowDocumentId(''));
+				workflowDocumentStore.setNodes([source]);
+				workflowDocumentStore.createGroup([source.id], 'Group 1');
+
+				useUIStore().lastInteractedWithNodeId = source.id;
+				const nodeCreatorStore = useNodeCreatorStore();
+				nodeCreatorStore.openSource = NODE_CREATOR_OPEN_SOURCES.ADD_NODE_BUTTON;
+				nodeCreatorStore.setSelectedView(REGULAR_NODE_CREATOR_VIEW);
+			});
+			await nextTick();
+
+			expect(screen.getByText('Group')).toBeInTheDocument();
+		});
+	});
+
 	// Reproduces ADO-5590 (GH #33955): typing in the node-creator search field
 	// runs the fuzzy filter on every keystroke with no debounce, so rapid typing
 	// re-filters and re-renders on each character. AgentsMode debounces its
diff --git a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/shared/nodeCreator/components/Panel/NodesListPanel.vue b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/shared/nodeCreator/components/Panel/NodesListPanel.vue
index 63cc4fe1429..7e09ad4f911 100644
--- a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/shared/nodeCreator/components/Panel/NodesListPanel.vue
+++ b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/shared/nodeCreator/components/Panel/NodesListPanel.vue
@@ -1,12 +1,14 @@
 <script setup lang="ts">
 import type { INodeCreateElement, NodeFilterType, SimplifiedNodeType } from '@/Interface';
 import {
+	ADD_EMPTY_GROUP_NODE_CREATOR_ITEM,
 	AI_EVALUATION,
 	AI_NODE_CREATOR_VIEW,
 	AI_OTHERS_NODE_CREATOR_VIEW,
 	AI_UNCATEGORIZED_CATEGORY,
 	DEBOUNCE_TIME,
 	HUMAN_IN_THE_LOOP_CATEGORY,
+	isNodeCreatorOpenFromConnection,
 	REGULAR_NODE_CREATOR_VIEW,
 	TRIGGER_NODE_CREATOR_VIEW,
 } from '@/app/constants';
@@ -39,6 +41,8 @@ import CommunityNodeDocsLink from '@/features/settings/communityNodes/components
 import CommunityNodeFooter from '@/features/settings/communityNodes/components/nodeCreator/CommunityNodeFooter.vue';
 import CommunityNodeInfo from '@/features/settings/communityNodes/components/nodeCreator/CommunityNodeInfo.vue';
 import { useUsersStore } from '@n8n/stores/users.store';
+import { useUIStore } from '@/app/stores/ui.store';
+import { injectWorkflowDocumentStore } from '@/app/stores/workflowDocument.store';
 
 import { N8nIcon, N8nNotice } from '@n8n/design-system';
 const i18n = useI18n();
@@ -48,9 +52,22 @@ const { mergedNodes } = useNodeCreatorStore();
 const { pushViewStack, popViewStack, updateCurrentViewStack } = useViewStacks();
 const { setActiveItemIndex, attachKeydownEvent, detachKeydownEvent } = useKeyboardNavigation();
 const nodeCreatorStore = useNodeCreatorStore();
+const uiStore = useUIStore();
+const workflowDocumentStore = injectWorkflowDocumentStore();
 
 const { isAdminOrOwner } = useUsersStore();
 
+const isAddingInsideGroup = computed(() => {
+	// Currently the only way to add an item inside group is from connection inside group
+	if (!isNodeCreatorOpenFromConnection(nodeCreatorStore.openSource)) return false;
+
+	const sourceNodeId = uiStore.lastInteractedWithNodeId;
+	return (
+		sourceNodeId !== undefined &&
+		workflowDocumentStore.value.getGroupForNode(sourceNodeId) !== undefined
+	);
+});
+
 const activeViewStack = computed(() => useViewStacks().activeViewStack);
 
 const communityNodeDetails = computed(() => activeViewStack.value.communityNodeDetails);
@@ -216,17 +233,21 @@ watch(
 			return;
 		}
 		const view = matchedView(mergedNodes);
+		const viewItems = isAddingInsideGroup.value
+			? // Forbid adding groups inside groups (nesting not supported)
+				view.items.filter((item) => item.key !== ADD_EMPTY_GROUP_NODE_CREATOR_ITEM)
+			: view.items;
 		const viewStack: ViewStack = {
 			title: view.title,
 			subtitle: view?.subtitle ?? '',
-			items: view.items as INodeCreateElement[],
+			items: viewItems as INodeCreateElement[],
 			nodeIcon: view.nodeIcon,
 			info: view.info,
 			hasSearch: true,
 			mode: 'nodes',
 			rootView: selectedView,
 			// Root search should include all nodes and command items.
-			searchItems: getNodeCreatorSearchItems(mergedNodes, view.items),
+			searchItems: getNodeCreatorSearchItems(mergedNodes, viewItems),
 			...additionalOptions[selectedView],
 		};
 		pushViewStack(viewStack);
diff --git a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/shared/nodeCreator/composables/useActions.test.ts b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/shared/nodeCreator/composables/useActions.test.ts
index a40383b0709..b4da69fb805 100644
--- a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/shared/nodeCreator/composables/useActions.test.ts
+++ b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/shared/nodeCreator/composables/useActions.test.ts
@@ -118,6 +118,25 @@ describe('useActions', () => {
 			});
 		});
 
+		test.each([
+			NODE_CREATOR_OPEN_SOURCES.PLUS_ENDPOINT,
+			NODE_CREATOR_OPEN_SOURCES.NODE_CONNECTION_ACTION,
+			NODE_CREATOR_OPEN_SOURCES.NODE_CONNECTION_DROP,
+		])('should not insert a manual trigger when opened from %s', (openSource) => {
+			const nodeCreatorStore = useNodeCreatorStore();
+
+			mockDocumentStoreState.workflowTriggerNodes = [];
+			vi.spyOn(nodeCreatorStore, 'openSource', 'get').mockReturnValue(openSource);
+			vi.spyOn(nodeCreatorStore, 'selectedView', 'get').mockReturnValue(TRIGGER_NODE_CREATOR_VIEW);
+
+			const { getAddedNodesAndConnections } = useActions();
+
+			expect(getAddedNodesAndConnections([{ type: HTTP_REQUEST_NODE_TYPE }])).toEqual({
+				connections: [],
+				nodes: [{ type: HTTP_REQUEST_NODE_TYPE, openDetail: true }],
+			});
+		});
+
 		test('should not insert a manual trigger node when there is a trigger in the workflow', () => {
 			const nodeCreatorStore = useNodeCreatorStore();
 
diff --git a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/shared/nodeCreator/composables/useActions.ts b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/shared/nodeCreator/composables/useActions.ts
index 67a7a770089..9e37a143a90 100644
--- a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/shared/nodeCreator/composables/useActions.ts
+++ b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/shared/nodeCreator/composables/useActions.ts
@@ -22,9 +22,9 @@ import {
 	AI_CATEGORY_LANGUAGE_MODELS,
 	BASIC_CHAIN_NODE_TYPE,
 	CHAT_TRIGGER_NODE_TYPE,
+	isNodeCreatorOpenFromConnection,
 	MANUAL_TRIGGER_NODE_TYPE,
 	MESSAGE_AN_AGENT_NODE_TYPE,
-	NODE_CREATOR_OPEN_SOURCES,
 	NO_OP_NODE_TYPE,
 	OPEN_AI_ASSISTANT_NODE_TYPE,
 	OPEN_AI_NODE_MESSAGE_ASSISTANT_TYPE,
@@ -61,11 +61,6 @@ export const useActions = () => {
 	const nodeTypesStore = useNodeTypesStore();
 	const uiStore = useUIStore();
 	const i18n = useI18n();
-	const singleNodeOpenSources = [
-		NODE_CREATOR_OPEN_SOURCES.PLUS_ENDPOINT,
-		NODE_CREATOR_OPEN_SOURCES.NODE_CONNECTION_ACTION,
-		NODE_CREATOR_OPEN_SOURCES.NODE_CONNECTION_DROP,
-	];
 
 	const actionsCategoryLocales = computed(() => {
 		return {
@@ -260,11 +255,10 @@ export const useActions = () => {
 		const isTriggerPanel = selectedView === TRIGGER_NODE_CREATOR_VIEW;
 		const onlyStickyNodes = addedNodes.every((node) => node.type === STICKY_NODE_TYPE);
 
-		// If the node creator was opened from the plus endpoint, node connection action, or node connection drop
-		// then we do not want to append the manual trigger
-		const isSingleNodeOpenSource = singleNodeOpenSources.includes(openSource);
+		// Connection-based openings already have a source node, so do not prepend a trigger.
+		const isAddingFromConnection = isNodeCreatorOpenFromConnection(openSource);
 		return (
-			!isSingleNodeOpenSource &&
+			!isAddingFromConnection &&
 			!hasTrigger &&
 			!workflowContainsTrigger &&
 			isTriggerPanel &&
diff --git a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/shared/nodeCreator/views/NodeCreation.test.ts b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/shared/nodeCreator/views/NodeCreation.test.ts
index 8e140094afa..292e7e26cb1 100644
--- a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/shared/nodeCreator/views/NodeCreation.test.ts
+++ b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/shared/nodeCreator/views/NodeCreation.test.ts
@@ -5,7 +5,7 @@ import { type MockedStore, mockedStore } from '@/__tests__/utils';
 import { defaultSettings } from '@n8n/frontend-test-utils';
 import { useSettingsStore } from '@n8n/stores/settings.store';
 import NodeCreation from './NodeCreation.vue';
-import type { AddedNodesAndConnections, XYPosition } from '@/Interface';
+import type { AddedNodesAndConnections } from '@/Interface';
 import { NODE_CREATOR_OPEN_SOURCES } from '@/app/constants';
 import { useNodeCreatorStore } from '../nodeCreator.store';
 
@@ -120,15 +120,13 @@ describe('NodeCreation', () => {
 		expect(queryByTestId('command-bar-button')).toBeInTheDocument();
 	});
 
-	it('emits the anchor position when Group is selected in the node creator', async () => {
+	it('uses regular node placement when Group is selected in the node creator', async () => {
 		const { getByTestId, emitted } = renderComponent({ pinia });
 
 		getByTestId('node-creator-stub-group').click();
 
 		await vi.waitFor(() => expect(emitted('addEmptyGroup')).toHaveLength(1));
-		const addEmptyGroupEvents = emitted<[XYPosition, boolean]>('addEmptyGroup');
-		expect(addEmptyGroupEvents[0][0]).toEqual([expect.any(Number), expect.any(Number)]);
-		expect(addEmptyGroupEvents[0][1]).toBe(false);
+		expect(emitted('addEmptyGroup')).toEqual([[false]]);
 		expect(emitted('toggleNodeCreator')).toEqual([
 			[{ createNodeActive: false, hasAddedNodes: true }],
 		]);
@@ -142,8 +140,7 @@ describe('NodeCreation', () => {
 		getByTestId('node-creator-stub-group').click();
 
 		await vi.waitFor(() => expect(emitted('addEmptyGroup')).toHaveLength(1));
-		const addEmptyGroupEvents = emitted<[XYPosition, boolean]>('addEmptyGroup');
-		expect(addEmptyGroupEvents[0][1]).toBe(true);
+		expect(emitted('addEmptyGroup')).toEqual([[true]]);
 	});
 	it('hides the command bar button in canvas-only mode', () => {
 		settingsStore.settings = { ...defaultSettings, canvasOnly: true };
diff --git a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/shared/nodeCreator/views/NodeCreation.vue b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/shared/nodeCreator/views/NodeCreation.vue
index d121f3feb23..460c40a0ebd 100644
--- a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/shared/nodeCreator/views/NodeCreation.vue
+++ b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/shared/nodeCreator/views/NodeCreation.vue
@@ -1,10 +1,11 @@
 <script setup lang="ts">
 /* eslint-disable vue/no-multiple-template-root */
 import { computed, defineAsyncComponent, nextTick } from 'vue';
-import { DEFAULT_NODE_SIZE, getMidCanvasPosition } from '@/app/utils/nodeViewUtils';
+import { getMidCanvasPosition } from '@/app/utils/nodeViewUtils';
 import {
 	DEFAULT_STICKY_HEIGHT,
 	DEFAULT_STICKY_WIDTH,
+	isNodeCreatorOpenFromConnection,
 	NODE_CREATOR_OPEN_SOURCES,
 	STICKY_NODE_TYPE,
 } from '@/app/constants';
@@ -16,7 +17,6 @@ import type {
 	AddedNodesAndConnections,
 	NodeTypeSelectedPayload,
 	ToggleNodeCreatorOptions,
-	XYPosition,
 } from '@/Interface';
 import { useActions } from '../composables/useActions';
 import { useNodeCreatorStore } from '../nodeCreator.store';
@@ -56,7 +56,7 @@ const props = withDefaults(defineProps<Props>(), {
 
 const emit = defineEmits<{
 	addNodes: [value: AddedNodesAndConnections];
-	addEmptyGroup: [position: XYPosition, connectToLastInteractedNode: boolean];
+	addEmptyGroup: [connectToLastInteractedNode: boolean];
 	toggleNodeCreator: [value: ToggleNodeCreatorOptions];
 	close: [];
 }>();
@@ -72,12 +72,6 @@ const workflowId = useWorkflowId();
 const settingsStore = useSettingsStore();
 const nodeCreatorStore = useNodeCreatorStore();
 
-const connectionOpenSources = new Set([
-	NODE_CREATOR_OPEN_SOURCES.PLUS_ENDPOINT,
-	NODE_CREATOR_OPEN_SOURCES.NODE_CONNECTION_ACTION,
-	NODE_CREATOR_OPEN_SOURCES.NODE_CONNECTION_DROP,
-]);
-
 const { getAddedNodesAndConnections } = useActions();
 const { shouldShowCoachmark, onDismissCoachmark } = useNodeCreatorShortcutCoachmark();
 
@@ -114,12 +108,7 @@ function addEmptyGroup() {
 		(document.activeElement as HTMLElement).blur();
 	}
 
-	const offset: [number, number] = [...uiStore.nodeViewOffsetPosition];
-	const position = getMidCanvasPosition(props.nodeViewScale, offset);
-	position[0] -= DEFAULT_NODE_SIZE[0] / 2;
-	position[1] -= DEFAULT_NODE_SIZE[1] / 2;
-
-	emit('addEmptyGroup', position, connectionOpenSources.has(nodeCreatorStore.openSource));
+	emit('addEmptyGroup', isNodeCreatorOpenFromConnection(nodeCreatorStore.openSource));
 }
 
 function closeNodeCreator(hasAddedNodes = false) {
diff --git a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/workflows/canvas/components/Canvas.test.ts b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/workflows/canvas/components/Canvas.test.ts
index acd0e8f7324..7078d558506 100644
--- a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/workflows/canvas/components/Canvas.test.ts
+++ b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/workflows/canvas/components/Canvas.test.ts
@@ -25,7 +25,7 @@ import {
 
 import type { useDeviceSupport } from '@n8n/composables/useDeviceSupport';
 import { useVueFlow } from '@vue-flow/core';
-import { SIMULATE_NODE_TYPE } from '@/app/constants';
+import { NO_OP_NODE_TYPE, SIMULATE_NODE_TYPE } from '@/app/constants';
 import { canvasEventBus } from '@/features/workflows/canvas/canvas.eventBus';
 import { createEventBus } from '@n8n/utils/event-bus';
 import { GROUP_PADDING_Y_BOTTOM, GROUP_PADDING_Y_TOP } from '../stores/canvasNodeGroups.constants';
@@ -1008,6 +1008,39 @@ describe('Canvas', () => {
 			return { group, groupNode, ...rendered };
 		};
 
+		it('selects an expanded empty group when its anchor is selected', async () => {
+			workflowDocumentStore.setScopes(['workflow:update']);
+			workflowDocumentStore.setNodes([
+				createTestNode({
+					id: 'anchor',
+					type: NO_OP_NODE_TYPE,
+					parameters: { emptyGroupAnchor: true },
+				}),
+			]);
+			const group = workflowDocumentStore.createGroup(['anchor'], 'Empty group');
+			const groupNode = createCanvasGroupElement({
+				id: group.id,
+				name: group.name,
+				nodeIds: ['anchor'],
+				isCollapsed: false,
+			});
+			groupNode.data!.isEmptyGroup = true;
+			const rendered = renderComponent({
+				props: {
+					nodes: [groupNode, createCanvasNodeElement({ id: 'anchor', position: { x: 40, y: 40 } })],
+				},
+				global: {
+					provide: { [NodeGroupViewKey as symbol]: createNodeGroupViewMock(false) },
+				},
+			});
+			const vueFlow = useVueFlow(canvasId);
+
+			await waitFor(() => expect(vueFlow.findNode('anchor')).toBeDefined());
+			vueFlow.addSelectedNodes([vueFlow.findNode('anchor')!]);
+
+			await waitFor(() => expect(getSelectionRing(rendered.container)).toBeInTheDocument());
+		});
+
 		it('hides the selection toolbar when the selection is exactly one group', async () => {
 			const { groupNode, queryByTestId } = await setupExpandedGroupWithLooseNodes();
 			const vueFlow = useVueFlow(canvasId);
@@ -1631,7 +1664,59 @@ describe('Canvas', () => {
 			await fireEvent.keyDown(document, { key: 'Backspace' });
 			await fireEvent.keyUp(document, { key: 'Backspace' });
 
-			expect(emitted()['delete:nodes']?.[0]).toEqual([['a', 'b'], true]);
+			expect(emitted()['delete:nodes']?.[0]).toEqual([['a', 'b'], [group.id]]);
+		});
+
+		it('only suppresses anchor preservation for explicitly selected groups', async () => {
+			workflowDocumentStore.setScopes(['workflow:update']);
+			workflowDocumentStore.setNodes([
+				createTestNode({ id: 'a1', name: 'Node A1' }),
+				createTestNode({ id: 'a2', name: 'Node A2' }),
+				createTestNode({ id: 'b1', name: 'Node B1' }),
+			]);
+			workflowDocumentStore.setNodeGroups([
+				{ id: 'g1', name: 'Group 1', nodeIds: ['a1', 'a2'] },
+				{ id: 'g2', name: 'Group 2', nodeIds: ['b1'] },
+			]);
+
+			const rendered = renderComponent({
+				props: {
+					nodes: [
+						createCanvasGroupElement({ id: 'g1', nodeIds: ['a1', 'a2'] }),
+						createCanvasGroupElement({ id: 'g2', nodeIds: ['b1'], position: { x: 400, y: 0 } }),
+						createCanvasNodeElement({ id: 'a1', label: 'Node A1' }),
+						createCanvasNodeElement({ id: 'a2', label: 'Node A2' }),
+						createCanvasNodeElement({ id: 'b1', label: 'Node B1', position: { x: 400, y: 120 } }),
+					],
+				},
+				global: {
+					provide: {
+						[NodeGroupViewKey as symbol]: createNodeGroupViewMock(false),
+					},
+				},
+			});
+
+			await waitFor(() =>
+				expect(rendered.container.querySelectorAll('.vue-flow__node')).toHaveLength(5),
+			);
+
+			const vueFlow = useVueFlow(canvasId);
+			vueFlow.addSelectedNodes([vueFlow.findNode('group:g1')!, vueFlow.findNode('b1')!]);
+			await waitFor(() =>
+				expect(vueFlow.getSelectedNodes.value.map(({ id }) => id)).toEqual(
+					expect.arrayContaining(['group:g1', 'a1', 'a2', 'b1']),
+				),
+			);
+
+			await fireEvent.keyDown(document, { key: 'Backspace' });
+			await fireEvent.keyUp(document, { key: 'Backspace' });
+
+			const deleteEvent = rendered.emitted()['delete:nodes']?.at(-1) as
+				| [string[], string[]?]
+				| undefined;
+			const [ids, deleteWholeGroupIds] = deleteEvent ?? [];
+			expect(ids).toEqual(expect.arrayContaining(['a1', 'a2', 'b1']));
+			expect(deleteWholeGroupIds).toEqual(['g1']);
 		});
 	});
 
@@ -1845,6 +1930,24 @@ describe('Canvas', () => {
 			expect([...useContextMenu().targetNodeIds.value].sort()).toEqual(['a', 'b', 'node-3']);
 		});
 
+		it('only deletes explicitly selected groups from a mixed context-menu selection', async () => {
+			const { group, groupNode, looseNode, getByTestId, emitted } = await renderWithGroup();
+
+			const { addSelectedNodes, findNode } = useVueFlow(canvasId);
+			addSelectedNodes([findNode(groupNode.id)!, findNode(looseNode.id)!]);
+			await waitFor(() => expect(findNode(groupNode.id)?.selected).toBe(true));
+
+			await fireEvent.contextMenu(getByTestId('canvas-node-group'));
+			await waitFor(() => expect(useContextMenu().isOpen.value).toBe(true));
+			await waitFor(() => expect(getByTestId('context-menu-item-delete')).toBeInTheDocument());
+			await fireEvent.click(getByTestId('context-menu-item-delete'));
+
+			const deleteEvent = emitted()['delete:nodes']?.at(-1) as [string[], string[]?] | undefined;
+			const [ids, deleteWholeGroupIds] = deleteEvent ?? [];
+			expect(ids).toEqual(expect.arrayContaining(['a', 'b', 'node-3']));
+			expect(deleteWholeGroupIds).toEqual([group.id]);
+		});
+
 		it('copies the group members through the copy action', async () => {
 			const { getByTestId, emitted } = await renderWithGroup();
 
diff --git a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/workflows/canvas/components/Canvas.vue b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/workflows/canvas/components/Canvas.vue
index c6d8a80fe62..8271bcaf2db 100644
--- a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/workflows/canvas/components/Canvas.vue
+++ b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/workflows/canvas/components/Canvas.vue
@@ -27,7 +27,6 @@ import { NODE_CREATOR_SHORTCUT_COACHMARK_KEY } from '@/features/shared/nodeCreat
 import type { NodeCreatorOpenSource } from '@/Interface';
 import type {
 	CanvasConnection,
-	CanvasGroupNode,
 	CanvasEventBusEvents,
 	CanvasGroupNodeData,
 	CanvasNode,
@@ -68,7 +67,12 @@ import type {
 import { getRectOfNodes, MarkerType, PanelPosition, useVueFlow, VueFlow } from '@vue-flow/core';
 import { MiniMap } from '@vue-flow/minimap';
 import { onKeyDown, onKeyUp, useThrottleFn, watchDebounced } from '@vueuse/core';
-import { NodeConnectionTypes, type IConnections, type IWorkflowGroup } from 'n8n-workflow';
+import {
+	getEmptyGroupAnchor,
+	NodeConnectionTypes,
+	type IConnections,
+	type IWorkflowGroup,
+} from 'n8n-workflow';
 import {
 	createCanvasConnectionHandleString,
 	shouldIgnoreCanvasShortcut,
@@ -147,7 +151,7 @@ const emit = defineEmits<{
 	'replace:node': [id: string];
 	'create:node': [source: NodeCreatorOpenSource];
 	'create:sticky': [];
-	'delete:nodes': [ids: string[], deleteWholeGroups?: boolean];
+	'delete:nodes': [ids: string[], deleteWholeGroupIds?: string[]];
 	'update:nodes:enabled': [ids: string[]];
 	'copy:nodes': [ids: string[]];
 	'duplicate:nodes': [ids: string[]];
@@ -480,6 +484,7 @@ const extractableGroupIds = computed(() => {
 	const ids = new Set<string>();
 	if (settingsStore.isSubworkflowConversionDisabled) return ids;
 	for (const group of workflowDocumentStore.value.allGroups) {
+		if (isEmptyGroup(group.id)) continue;
 		if (isSelectionExtractable(group.nodeIds).valid) {
 			ids.add(group.id);
 		}
@@ -500,6 +505,23 @@ const soleSelectedGroupId = computed<string | null>(() => {
 	return selectedNodes.value.every((node) => memberIds.has(node.id)) ? groupId : null;
 });
 
+const soleSelectedEmptyGroup = computed(() => {
+	const selectedGroups = selectedNodesAndGroups.value.filter(isCanvasGroupNode);
+	if (selectedGroups.length !== 1) return false;
+
+	const groupNode = selectedGroups[0];
+	if (groupNode.data?.isEmptyGroup !== true) return false;
+
+	const groupId = parseCanvasGroupNodeId(groupNode.id);
+	if (!groupId) return false;
+
+	const group = workflowDocumentStore.value.getGroupById(groupId);
+	if (!group) return false;
+
+	const memberIds = new Set(group.nodeIds);
+	return selectedNodes.value.every((node) => memberIds.has(node.id));
+});
+
 const groupTelemetry = useCanvasNodeGroupTelemetry();
 
 function handleGroupCreated(group: IWorkflowGroup, source: CanvasNodeGroupEventSource) {
@@ -587,7 +609,7 @@ const keyMap = computed(() => {
 		},
 		shift_alt_t: async () => await onTidyUp({ source: 'keyboard-shortcut' }),
 		alt_x: {
-			disabled: () => settingsStore.isSubworkflowConversionDisabled,
+			disabled: () => settingsStore.isSubworkflowConversionDisabled || soleSelectedEmptyGroup.value,
 			run: emitWithSelectedNodes((ids) => emit('extract-workflow', ids)),
 		},
 		c: () => emit('start-chat'),
@@ -804,14 +826,19 @@ const groupDrag = useCanvasNodeGroupDrag({
 
 // Groups select as one unit: title bar and member selection stay in sync,
 // and a fully selected group surfaces the selection instead of its members.
-const { fullySelectedGroupMemberIds, selectedElementCount, selectionBoxBounds } =
-	useCanvasNodeGroupSelection({
-		canvasId: props.id,
-		isEnabled: () => props.showNodeGroups,
-		getGroupById: (id) => workflowDocumentStore.value.getGroupById(id),
-		getGroupForNode: (id) => workflowDocumentStore.value.getGroupForNode(id),
-		isGroupCollapsed: (id) => injectedNodeGroupView?.isGroupCollapsed(id) ?? false,
-	});
+const {
+	fullySelectedGroupMemberIds,
+	selectedElementCount,
+	selectionBoxBounds,
+	explicitlySelectedGroupIds,
+} = useCanvasNodeGroupSelection({
+	canvasId: props.id,
+	isEnabled: () => props.showNodeGroups,
+	getGroupById: (id) => workflowDocumentStore.value.getGroupById(id),
+	getGroupForNode: (id) => workflowDocumentStore.value.getGroupForNode(id),
+	isEmptyGroup,
+	isGroupCollapsed: (id) => injectedNodeGroupView?.isGroupCollapsed(id) ?? false,
+});
 
 // VueFlow sizes its selection box to the selected VueFlow nodes, but a group
 // node is only the title bar — its expanded frame overflows the box. Feed the
@@ -1004,6 +1031,7 @@ function onCanvasGroupUngroup(
 ) {
 	// Capture before deletion — the group is gone by the time we track.
 	const group = workflowDocumentStore.value.getGroupById(groupId);
+	if (!group || isEmptyGroup(groupId)) return;
 	// Ungrouping a collapsed group makes its hidden members reappear, so expand
 	// it first: the expansion pushes overlapping nodes aside, and the commit
 	// below persists that displacement (the group is gone after, so the push
@@ -1016,19 +1044,27 @@ function onCanvasGroupUngroup(
 	commitPushedPositionsForSourceGroups([groupId]);
 	ungroup(groupId);
 
-	if (group) {
-		groupTelemetry.trackUngrouped(group, source);
-	}
+	groupTelemetry.trackUngrouped(group, source);
 }
 
 // Same downstream path as extracting the members through Alt+X or the
 // context menu, so collapsed and expanded groups behave identically.
 function onCanvasGroupExtract(groupId: string) {
 	const group = workflowDocumentStore.value.getGroupById(groupId);
-	if (!group) return;
+	if (!group || isEmptyGroup(groupId)) return;
 	emit('extract-workflow', [...group.nodeIds]);
 }
 
+function isEmptyGroup(groupId: string): boolean {
+	const group = workflowDocumentStore.value.getGroupById(groupId);
+	if (!group) return false;
+
+	const memberNodes = group.nodeIds
+		.map((nodeId) => workflowDocumentStore.value.getNodeById(nodeId))
+		.filter(isPresent);
+	return getEmptyGroupAnchor(group, memberNodes) !== undefined;
+}
+
 function onCanvasGroupAddNodesToChat(groupId: string) {
 	const group = workflowDocumentStore.value.getGroupById(groupId);
 	if (!group) return;
@@ -1123,7 +1159,16 @@ function onDeleteSelection() {
 	const ids = selectedNodeIdsWithGroupMembers.value;
 	// Expand selected groups to their member nodes before deletion.
 	if (ids.length > 0) {
-		emit('delete:nodes', ids, selectedNodesAndGroups.value.some(isCanvasGroupNode));
+		const deleteWholeGroupIds = selectedNodesAndGroups.value
+			.filter(isCanvasGroupNode)
+			.map((node) => parseCanvasGroupNodeId(node.id))
+			.filter(
+				(groupId) =>
+					groupId &&
+					(selectedNodeIds.value.length === 0 || explicitlySelectedGroupIds.value.has(groupId)),
+			)
+			.filter(isPresent);
+		emit('delete:nodes', ids, deleteWholeGroupIds);
 	}
 }
 
@@ -1299,11 +1344,11 @@ const connectionCreated = ref(false);
 const connectingHandle = ref<ConnectStartEvent>();
 const connectedHandle = ref<Connection>();
 
-function getEmptyGroupAnchor(
+function getEmptyGroupAnchorFromCanvasNode(
 	nodeId: string | undefined,
 ): { nodeId: string; isCollapsed: boolean } | undefined {
 	if (!nodeId) return undefined;
-	const node = findNode(nodeId) as CanvasGroupNode | undefined;
+	const node = findNode(nodeId);
 	if (!node || !isCanvasGroupNode(node) || !node.data?.isEmptyGroup) return undefined;
 
 	const anchorId = node.data.group.nodeIds[0];
@@ -1314,13 +1359,13 @@ function getEmptyGroupAnchor(
 
 function normalizeEmptyGroupConnection(connection: Connection): Connection {
 	const normalized = { ...connection };
-	const sourceGroup = getEmptyGroupAnchor(connection.source);
+	const sourceGroup = getEmptyGroupAnchorFromCanvasNode(connection.source);
 	if (sourceGroup?.isCollapsed) {
 		normalized.source = sourceGroup.nodeId;
 		normalized.sourceHandle = createCanvasConnectionHandleString({ mode: 'outputs' });
 	}
 
-	const targetGroup = getEmptyGroupAnchor(connection.target);
+	const targetGroup = getEmptyGroupAnchorFromCanvasNode(connection.target);
 	if (targetGroup?.isCollapsed) {
 		normalized.target = targetGroup.nodeId;
 		normalized.targetHandle = createCanvasConnectionHandleString({ mode: 'inputs' });
@@ -1330,7 +1375,7 @@ function normalizeEmptyGroupConnection(connection: Connection): Connection {
 }
 
 function normalizeEmptyGroupConnectionStart(handle: ConnectStartEvent): ConnectStartEvent {
-	const group = getEmptyGroupAnchor(handle.nodeId);
+	const group = getEmptyGroupAnchorFromCanvasNode(handle.nodeId);
 	if (!group?.isCollapsed) return handle;
 
 	return {
@@ -1626,12 +1671,18 @@ async function onContextMenuAction(action: ContextMenuAction, nodeIds: string[],
 			return emit('create:sticky');
 		case 'copy':
 			return emit('copy:nodes', nodeIds);
-		case 'delete':
-			return emit(
-				'delete:nodes',
-				nodeIds,
-				Boolean(groupId) || selectedNodesAndGroups.value.some(isCanvasGroupNode),
+		case 'delete': {
+			const deleteWholeGroupIds = new Set(
+				selectedNodesAndGroups.value
+					.filter(isCanvasGroupNode)
+					.map((node) => parseCanvasGroupNodeId(node.id))
+					.filter((groupId) => groupId && explicitlySelectedGroupIds.value.has(groupId))
+					.filter(isPresent),
 			);
+			if (groupId) deleteWholeGroupIds.add(groupId);
+
+			return emit('delete:nodes', nodeIds, [...deleteWholeGroupIds]);
+		}
 		case 'select_all':
 			return onSelectAllNodes();
 		case 'deselect_all':
diff --git a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/workflows/canvas/components/elements/groups/CanvasNodeGroupTitleBar.test.ts b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/workflows/canvas/components/elements/groups/CanvasNodeGroupTitleBar.test.ts
index 6e7d29523ff..03183c1f7cb 100644
--- a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/workflows/canvas/components/elements/groups/CanvasNodeGroupTitleBar.test.ts
+++ b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/workflows/canvas/components/elements/groups/CanvasNodeGroupTitleBar.test.ts
@@ -367,6 +367,45 @@ describe('CanvasNodeGroupTitleBar', () => {
 			expect(wrapper.queryByTestId('canvas-node-group-info')).toBeTruthy();
 		});
 
+		it('shows the description affordance and panel for a collapsed empty group', async () => {
+			const visibility = useCanvasNodeGroupDescriptionVisibility({
+				workflowId: () => 'wf-1',
+				getCurrentGroups: () => [
+					{
+						id: 'g1',
+						name: 'My group',
+						nodeIds: ['anchor'],
+						description: 'Empty group description',
+					},
+				],
+				onNodeGroupsChange: () => ({ off: () => {} }),
+			});
+			const wrapper = render(
+				{
+					data: makeData({
+						isCollapsed: true,
+						isEmptyGroup: true,
+						group: {
+							...baseGroup,
+							nodeIds: ['anchor'],
+							description: 'Empty group description',
+						},
+					}),
+				},
+				visibility,
+			);
+
+			expect(wrapper.getByTestId('canvas-node-group-info')).toBeVisible();
+
+			visibility.setVisible('g1', true);
+			await waitFor(() => {
+				expect(wrapper.getByTestId('canvas-node-group-description-panel')).toBeVisible();
+			});
+			expect(wrapper.getByTestId('canvas-node-group-description-text')).toHaveTextContent(
+				'Empty group description',
+			);
+		});
+
 		it('hides the info icon and description below the zoom threshold', () => {
 			viewportRef.value = { x: 0, y: 0, zoom: 0.5 };
 			const collapsed = render({ data: makeData({ isCollapsed: true }) });
@@ -605,6 +644,16 @@ describe('CanvasNodeGroupTitleBar', () => {
 			expect(wrapper.emitted().ungroup).toEqual([['g1']]);
 		});
 
+		it('hides ungroup and convert actions for an empty group', () => {
+			const wrapper = render({
+				data: makeData({ isEmptyGroup: true }),
+				canExtract: true,
+			});
+
+			expect(wrapper.queryByTestId('canvas-node-group-ungroup')).toBeNull();
+			expect(wrapper.queryByTestId('canvas-node-group-extract')).toBeNull();
+		});
+
 		// The toolbar offers the same actions whether the group is collapsed or
 		// expanded.
 		it.each([{ isCollapsed: true }, { isCollapsed: false }])(
diff --git a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/workflows/canvas/components/elements/groups/CanvasNodeGroupTitleBar.vue b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/workflows/canvas/components/elements/groups/CanvasNodeGroupTitleBar.vue
index d19c58d0689..cbde34b4c74 100644
--- a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/workflows/canvas/components/elements/groups/CanvasNodeGroupTitleBar.vue
+++ b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/workflows/canvas/components/elements/groups/CanvasNodeGroupTitleBar.vue
@@ -107,6 +107,7 @@ const markStatus = computed(() => MARK_STATUSES.find((status) => status === exec
 const wrapperClasses = computed(() => [
 	$style.wrapper,
 	{
+		[$style.emptyGroup]: isEmptyGroup.value,
 		[$style.collapsed]: isCollapsed.value,
 		[$style.selected]: props.selected,
 		[$style.deactivated]: allNodesDisabled.value,
@@ -465,6 +466,7 @@ function onWrapperPointerDown(event: PointerEvent) {
 			>
 				<div :class="$style.toolbarItems">
 					<KeyboardShortcutTooltip
+						v-if="!isEmptyGroup"
 						:label="i18n.baseText('canvas.selection.toolbar.ungroup')"
 						:shortcut="UNGROUP_NODES_SHORTCUT"
 					>
@@ -479,7 +481,7 @@ function onWrapperPointerDown(event: PointerEvent) {
 						/>
 					</KeyboardShortcutTooltip>
 					<KeyboardShortcutTooltip
-						v-if="canExtract"
+						v-if="canExtract && !isEmptyGroup"
 						:label="extractLabel"
 						:shortcut="EXTRACT_WORKFLOW_SHORTCUT"
 					>
@@ -799,6 +801,11 @@ function onWrapperPointerDown(event: PointerEvent) {
 	}
 }
 
+.wrapper.emptyGroup .titleBar {
+	background: var(--background--hover);
+	@include styles.canvas-node-border(dashed);
+}
+
 /* stylelint-disable */
 .wrapper.collapsed.running .titleBar::after,
 .wrapper.collapsed.waiting .titleBar::after {
@@ -983,6 +990,12 @@ function onWrapperPointerDown(event: PointerEvent) {
 	z-index: 0;
 }
 
+.wrapper.emptyGroup .frame {
+	background: var(--background--hover);
+	@include styles.canvas-node-border(dashed);
+	border-top: none;
+}
+
 .selectionRing {
 	position: absolute;
 	top: 0;
@@ -1076,4 +1089,8 @@ function onWrapperPointerDown(event: PointerEvent) {
 .descriptionEmpty {
 	color: var(--text-color--disabled);
 }
+
+.wrapper.emptyGroup .descriptionEmpty {
+	color: var(--text-color--subtler);
+}
 </style>
diff --git a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/workflows/canvas/composables/useCanvasNodeGroupActions.test.ts b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/workflows/canvas/composables/useCanvasNodeGroupActions.test.ts
index 1f001261921..dacb6979867 100644
--- a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/workflows/canvas/composables/useCanvasNodeGroupActions.test.ts
+++ b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/workflows/canvas/composables/useCanvasNodeGroupActions.test.ts
@@ -1,6 +1,7 @@
 import { describe, it, expect, vi, beforeEach } from 'vitest';
 import { createPinia, setActivePinia } from 'pinia';
 import { computed } from 'vue';
+import { NO_OP_NODE_TYPE } from '@/app/constants';
 
 import { useCanvasNodeGroupActions } from './useCanvasNodeGroupActions';
 import {
@@ -407,6 +408,26 @@ describe('useCanvasNodeGroupActions', () => {
 			expect(selectedGroupIds.value).toEqual([group.id]);
 		});
 
+		it('does not include an empty group in ungroup actions', () => {
+			const anchor = {
+				id: 'anchor',
+				name: 'Empty group anchor',
+				parameters: { emptyGroupAnchor: true },
+				position: [0, 0] as [number, number],
+				type: NO_OP_NODE_TYPE,
+				typeVersion: 1,
+			};
+			workflowDocumentStore.setNodes([anchor]);
+			const group = workflowDocumentStore.createGroup([anchor.id], 'Empty group');
+
+			const { canUngroup, selectedGroupIds } = useCanvasNodeGroupActions(
+				computed(() => [createCanvasGraphGroupNode({ id: group.id, nodeIds: group.nodeIds })]),
+			);
+
+			expect(selectedGroupIds.value).toEqual([]);
+			expect(canUngroup.value).toBe(false);
+		});
+
 		it('is empty when no selected node belongs to a group', () => {
 			const { selectedGroupIds } = useCanvasNodeGroupActions(
 				computed(() => [createCanvasGraphNode({ id: 'a' })]),
diff --git a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/workflows/canvas/composables/useCanvasNodeGroupActions.ts b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/workflows/canvas/composables/useCanvasNodeGroupActions.ts
index cccbb1e01d8..6cd52b873c4 100644
--- a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/workflows/canvas/composables/useCanvasNodeGroupActions.ts
+++ b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/workflows/canvas/composables/useCanvasNodeGroupActions.ts
@@ -1,11 +1,12 @@
 import type { GraphNode } from '@vue-flow/core';
 import { useI18n } from '@n8n/i18n';
-import type { IWorkflowGroup } from 'n8n-workflow';
+import { getEmptyGroupAnchor, type IWorkflowGroup } from 'n8n-workflow';
 import type { MaybeRefOrGetter } from 'vue';
 import { computed, toValue } from 'vue';
 
 import { useSelectionValidation } from '@/app/composables/useSelectionValidation';
 import { injectWorkflowDocumentStore } from '@/app/stores/workflowDocument.store';
+import { isPresent } from '@/app/utils/typesUtils';
 import { useHistoryStore } from '@/app/stores/history.store';
 import { AddNodeGroupCommand, UpdateNodeGroupCommand } from '@/app/models/history';
 import {
@@ -55,7 +56,15 @@ export function useCanvasNodeGroupActions(
 				ids.add(group.id);
 			}
 		}
-		return Array.from(ids);
+		return Array.from(ids).filter((id) => {
+			const group = workflowDocumentStore.value.getGroupById(id);
+			if (!group) return false;
+
+			const memberNodes = group.nodeIds
+				.map((nodeId) => workflowDocumentStore.value.getNodeById(nodeId))
+				.filter(isPresent);
+			return getEmptyGroupAnchor(group, memberNodes) === undefined;
+		});
 	});
 
 	const canUngroup = computed(() => selectedGroupIds.value.length > 0);
diff --git a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/workflows/canvas/composables/useCanvasNodeGroupSelection.ts b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/workflows/canvas/composables/useCanvasNodeGroupSelection.ts
index 678db05f94b..fbee16fd85d 100644
--- a/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/workflows/canvas/composables/useCanvasNodeGroupSelection.ts
+++ b/packages/frontend/editor-ui/src/features/workflows/canvas/composables/useCanvasNodeGroupSelection.ts
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-import { computed, toValue, watch, type MaybeRefOrGetter } from 'vue';
+import { computed, ref, toValue, watch, type MaybeRefOrGetter } from 'vue';
 import { useVueFlow } from '@vue-flow/core';
 import type { IWorkflowGroup } from 'n8n-workflow';
 import { isPresent } from '@/app/utils/typesUtils';
@@ -16,6 +16,7 @@ export interface UseCanvasNodeGroupSelectionDeps {
 	isEnabled: MaybeRefOrGetter<boolean>;
 	getGroupById: (groupId: string) => IWorkflowGroup | undefined;
 	getGroupForNode: (nodeId: string) => IWorkflowGroup | undefined;
+	isEmptyGroup: (groupId: string) => boolean;
 	isGroupCollapsed: (groupId: string) => boolean;
 }
 
@@ -47,6 +48,7 @@ export function useCanvasNodeGroupSelection(deps: UseCanvasNodeGroupSelectionDep
 	// Selection snapshot from the last reconciliation — diffing against it
 	// tells user-driven changes apart from our own.
 	let lastSelectedIds = new Set<string>();
+	const explicitlySelectedGroupIds = ref<Set<string>>(new Set());
 
 	const selectedIds = computed(() => new Set(getSelectedNodes.value.map((node) => node.id)));
 
@@ -110,7 +112,10 @@ export function useCanvasNodeGroupSelection(deps: UseCanvasNodeGroupSelectionDep
 			// mounts around an already-selected member is a grouping operation, so
 			// it must still fold the selection into the new group.
 			const isDirectMemberSelection =
-				group.nodeIds.length === 1 && !target.has(groupNodeId) && added.includes(group.nodeIds[0]);
+				group.nodeIds.length === 1 &&
+				!deps.isEmptyGroup(group.id) &&
+				!target.has(groupNodeId) &&
+				added.includes(group.nodeIds[0]);
 			if (isDirectMemberSelection) continue;
 			if (group.nodeIds.every((memberId) => target.has(memberId))) {
 				target.add(groupNodeId);
@@ -171,6 +176,7 @@ export function useCanvasNodeGroupSelection(deps: UseCanvasNodeGroupSelectionDep
 
 	watch([selectedIds, userSelectionActive, mountedGroupNodeIdsKey], () => {
 		if (!toValue(deps.isEnabled)) {
+			explicitlySelectedGroupIds.value = new Set();
 			lastSelectedIds = selectedIds.value;
 			return;
 		}
@@ -179,6 +185,18 @@ export function useCanvasNodeGroupSelection(deps: UseCanvasNodeGroupSelectionDep
 		if (userSelectionActive.value) return;
 
 		const currentIds = selectedIds.value;
+		const added = [...currentIds].filter((id) => !lastSelectedIds.has(id));
+		const removed = [...lastSelectedIds].filter((id) => !currentIds.has(id));
+		const nextExplicitlySelectedGroupIds = new Set(explicitlySelectedGroupIds.value);
+		for (const id of added) {
+			const groupId = parseCanvasGroupNodeId(id);
+			if (groupId) nextExplicitlySelectedGroupIds.add(groupId);
+		}
+		for (const id of removed) {
+			const groupId = parseCanvasGroupNodeId(id);
+			if (groupId) nextExplicitlySelectedGroupIds.delete(groupId);
+		}
+		explicitlySelectedGroupIds.value = nextExplicitlySelectedGroupIds;
 		const target = reconcile(currentIds);
 		const isInSync =
 			target.size === currentIds.size && [...target].every((id) => currentIds.has(id));
@@ -234,5 +252,6 @@ export function useCanvasNodeGroupSelection(deps: UseCanvasNodeGroupSelectionDep
 		fullySelectedGroupMemberIds,
 		selectedElementCount,
 		selectionBoxBounds,
+		explicitlySelectedGroupIds: computed(() => explicitlySelectedGroupIds.value),
 	};
 }